Oy Gevalt

"Israeli war planes and combat helicopters pounded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 140 people and prompting rocket fire from Palestinian militants that killed an Israeli, medics said." What a bunch of f@#kers.  After you sabotage a democratic election, create bantustans, build a huge f@#king wall, set your enemies against each other, set up a naval blockade, have several unnecessary skirmishes/wars, and do very very little to address the problems from your own side of the issue, at what point does it become evident that your strategy is not working? This is my question for the Israeli state.  I chose it instead of "Why are you engaging in brutal and immoral actions?" in the interests of moving conversation forward.  Take a note from Sri Lanka, Cyprus, Northern Ireland, India/Pakistan, and other former British colonies - decades of the use of force is not good at resolving these issues, nor is not making any concessions and expecting the other side to make them all.

Summary: 
At what point does it become evident that your strategy is not working? This is my question for the Israeli state.

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Amen.

Amen.

[comment deleted for racism -

[comment deleted for racism - basic argument: "Israel is an oasis of modernism, democracy, justice, scientific and cultural progress, in a desert of crazy rabid jihadist tinpots every one of which is sworn to the destruction of Israel." It got worse from there -Dr. A]

Dr. how do you propose to

Dr.

how do you propose to have those against a one-state solution be “gotten out of the way.” ?

I don't have any ready answers for this. In my own context, I would say that undercutting the power of AIPAC and groups like them, which don't serve the interests of any people in Israel/Palestine, in the U.S. would be a big step. So too would be calls for accountability for U.S. government actions in Israel/Palestine and elsewhere. That's just one of many things. It would probably entail developments in Israeli politics as well that would allow for a greater sense of ease and decency, the development of an effective and pluralistic service providing governing force in Palestine, tearing down the wall, and a lot of other stuff.

Anyway, it's just a suggestion - the final configuration of state boundaries is important, but it's secondary, for me, to finding a lasting end to the problem of useless social violence - though as we can see from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, the two problems overlap significantly.

Dr. how do you propose to

Dr.

how do you propose to have those against a one-state solution be "gotten out of the way." ?

Who's strategy is working in

Who's strategy is working in Israel and Palestine?

Poor India cannot go it

Poor India cannot go it alone: it is intellectually weak and is at the mercy of any western power that can help them with tactics and strategy.

For many decades the United States has invested a lot in cultivating Indians who will support their point of view in India. The BJP-led NDA government attempted a house cleaning of sorts with predictable wailing from people like Romila Thapar who were later outed as US puppets. I daresay there will eventually be a successful house cleaning which will lead to greater support for tactics and strategy developed within India.

Who’s strategy is working in

Who’s strategy is working in Israel and Palestine?

Well, that is the problem, isn't it? One might argue Hezbollah, but I don't know enough to do so. However, I do know enough to know that another question we might ask is - whose interests are being served by the policies (on all sides) in Israel/Palestine, what is the historical context of this conflict (not the pseudo-mythical one, but the one rooted in British colonialism and subsequently), and what steps can people individually take who are interested in a different set of interests being served - that of ordinary people - whether Palestinian or Israeli in the long run.

At this point, it's getting harder to imagine that won't entail a one state solution that is non-sectarian and pluralistic, but then, a lot of people need to be convinced that this is the only reasonable solution and a lot of people who will try to prevent it need to be gotten out of the way. The worst problems need to be turned into exemplars for conflict resolution to restore any capacity in the ability of human beings to deal with the behavior of the people who are manipulating them or the legacies of those who have in the past. Time grows short.

"Arab silence is behind the

"Arab silence is behind the bombings," read a banner held by one of several thousand people who turned out in the Sunni Arab city of Samarra north of Baghdad.

The Israeli raids, some of the worst in 60 years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, incensed many in the Arab world, where many governments are seen by popular Islamist movements as collaborators with the United States or Israel.

I wonder if the Israeli establishment will enjoy hostile populist regimes in its neighboring countries. It seems pretty deadset on making sure that happens over the long run. There's only so long the leaders of these countries can keep moving the shells around...

But hard to understand is

But hard to understand is India’s attitudes - to grovel before Israel, invite the top generals to Kashmir and buy their military weapons. Poor India cannot go it alone: it is intellectually weak and is at the mercy of any western power that can help them with tactics and strategy.

It's not hard. Parts of the Indian establishment want India to be the new Israel, tied at the hip with the United States, serving as a regional substation for the American empire. Sadly, they have not noticed that said empire is crumbling adn they would do better to try a little more to make it on their own because the state of India has enormomus resources and potential that its political and social system keep it from mobilizing.

Hi Dr Anon, I was referring

Hi Dr Anon, I was referring to the Indian leaders.
They have nothing to say and nobody cares cares what they say.
It is a sad reflection of the international status of the country.
By contrast, how every move from China is watched and measured. How supremely self-reliant they are.
let's quote some more:
Arundhati Roy (1999)
Her book, The Cost of Living (Modern Library, 1999), is about India’s earnest desire to be recognized as a big player … Here are excerpts:
”On the world arena, India is paid scant attention and remains one of the most misunderstood and uncelebrated countries on earth. The Indian power elites have long been frustrated & their egos bruised by their failure to meet with the American and European elites on equal terms and to earn the respect they crave…
"As a result, they go for grandiose projects such as the Narmada dam and for nuclear weapons. Such projects may assuage the wounded self-esteem of the elites and create an illusion of enhanced status.”

Professor Bhikku Parekh (Sep06)
“India has been experiencing an agonising crisis of identity for the past few years. There are no alternatives in sight, suggesting an intellectual vacuum. India counts for little in the world while China in contrast is making huge strides on all fronts.”
[from his address Exploring India’s identity, at the India International Centre in 2006. The speech was published in Confluence, Sept06]

They have nothing to say and

They have nothing to say and nobody cares cares what they say.

Well, the current dispensation is particularly feckless and beholden to Washington. It hasn't moved a finger while something like 4000 Indians have died in terrorist attacks on its watch, so why would they care for Hamas/Israel?

It is a sad reflection of the international status of the country.

I think the people you quoted are deceiving themselves about the motives of the Indian politician. I can understand why they'd want others to care what India thinks - since it enchances their own status - but the average Indian government cares more about getting elected again than about what someone thinks of India internationally.

Today is the National Call In

Today is the National Call In Day for Gaza, which involves calling the Obama Transition team. I did it, and it only takes like 2 minutes. Try to nudge those pesky voices intruding in your head, whispering "Obama is not really going to change traditional US policy towards Israel" and just do it, if only to let them know that Obama's response is unacceptable.

National Call-In Day for Gaza!
January 16, 2009

We designate Friday, January 16th as National Call-In Day for Gaza. Calling is quick, easy, and effective, and will take about 5-10 minutes. We need to keep the phones ringing non-stop for the duration of the day so that our message CAN NO LONGER BE IGNORED.

Contact in order of importance:


1) Call President-Elect Obama’s Transition Team at 202-540-3000.
Ask that President-Elect Obama and his team call for:
1) An immediate cease-fire.
2) An end to the blockade and siege of Gaza.
3) An immediate withdrawal from Gaza.

Be firm and polite and stress the fact that over a thousand people have died and thousands have been injured in Gaza, mainly civilians. This follows months of suffering under a severe blockade that has resulted in shortages of food, fuel and basic medical supplies. When calling, mention (UN Security Council Resolution 1860 that was adopted last week which calls for an immediate ceasefire and unimpeded humanitarian access.

2) Call your Representative at 202-224-3121. Ask how they voted on House Resolution 34 which passed overwhelmingly in the House last Friday, with 390 Representatives voting yes, 5 no, and 22 present. The resolution "recognizes Israel's right to defend itself" and "reaffirms the United States’ strong support for Israel."

If your Representative voted "no" or "present" on H.Res. 34, thank them and ask that they cosponsor Rep. Kucinich's upcoming resolution.
(See: http://endtheoccupation.org/downloads/KUCINI_001_xml.pdf)

If your representative voted "yes" on H.Res. 34 state your disagreement with their vote and ask them to co-sponsor the Kucinich resolution.

3) Call your Senators at 202-224-3121 and assert your disagreement with their unanimous vote on Senate Resolution 10 and ask that they introduce a resolution in the Senate that is similar to Rep. Kucinich's resolution in the House.

Please forward this to all your lists and personally contact 10 friends and urge them to make these calls to save lives in Gaza.

The unconcern of the Indian

The unconcern of the Indian media and politicians over the Gaza horrors baffles me. There is barely a mention in the online media and no comment has been by the bovine Indian leaders. Don’t they care at all? The online media is still full of the usual Bolly and cricket news.
Truly this third rate nation will only react on injustices if the US,EU or Israel does so. It meekly follows the white nations.

By and large, Indian senior politicians come out as tired old men, intellectual lightweights, with poor rational skills and little diplomatic acumen.
They lack charisma, style, vitality, wit; Manmohan Singh or Mukerjee or Advani have those glacial or embalmed features; expression wooden or vacuous, manner deadpan. Are they the living dead?

Have they ever made an inelligent comment that has attracted notice in the West? I am reminded of what the Sri Lankan columnist wrote in CounterPunch(20Nov07)
”India will continue to be what it has always been, a big little country bobbing along like cork in water - all buoyancy and drift, but no substance (and direction)”.

Following the terror attacks on Mumbai 26-28 Nov 2008, the Wall Street Journal dismissed Indian leaders as ‘weak-kneed’ and with ‘limited grasp of statecraft’ (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm not really an indian nationalist, but i find this level of pessmism / arrogance combined with mixing of categories (indian politicians, indian government leaders, indian state, indian nation, country, etc.), some of which have limited material meaning and even less analytical use to be a little offensive. There would have been better ways to say what, I think, you wanted to say, and a more specific way of targeting the complaints - there is a difference between the opportunities and weaknesses of a Manmohan Singh and a landless labourer in Punjab.

The unconcern of the Indian

The unconcern of the Indian media and politicians over the Gaza horrors baffles me. There is barely a mention in the online media and no comment has been by the bovine Indian leaders. Don’t they care at all?

The average person does not care. At least not to the extent that would satisfy your concerns in the matter regarding media coverage. In that respect India is pretty insular where the average person cares more about issues local to India - of which there are plenty - than about something happening far away in another country.

The MEA has issued a couple of statements here -

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/India_says_end_c...

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=India+issues+harsher...

[comment deleted for racism -

[comment deleted for racism - basic argument: "Israel is an oasis of modernism, democracy, justice, scientific and cultural progress, in a desert of crazy rabid jihadist tinpots every one of which is sworn to the destruction of Israel." It got worse from there -Dr. A]

Dr.A seems to be of the diploma mill variety, and quakes in his boots at the sight of anything that challenges his asinine, inane and ignorant assumptions. George is one of his toadies on this sad apology of an opinion clearing house, who isn't content with India grovelling before the rich Sheikhs and jihadi wannabes of Malaysia and wants India now to shed tears for cutthroat scum like the Hamas. That George chooses to follow half-axxxd sites like Counterpunch.com that advocate among other things the destruction of Israel, and print such garbage here, says a lot for this blog. What's being passed around here isn't roti, but XXXp. Goodbye till an above 100 IQ guy retunrs as moderator.

What’s being passed around

What’s being passed around here isn’t roti, but XXXp. Goodbye till an above 100 IQ guy retunrs as moderator.

Round 1: Dr. Anonymous 1, Hindutva O.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

A splendid post - a murderous

A splendid post - a murderous & illegal state like Israel (made up of Euroepan Jews) is free to kill and maim the natives of Palestine at will and nobody - including popes and Archbishops - dare criticise. The US and EU support Israel for one big reason - they are European like themselves.
But hard to understand is India's attitudes - to grovel before Israel, invite the top generals to Kashmir and buy their military weapons. Poor India cannot go it alone: it is intellectually weak and is at the mercy of any western power that can help them with tactics and strategy.

The reason you won't get an

The reason you won't get an intelligible response from 'the state' is the same reason that Daniel Levy and Avraham Burg are relative pariahs in Israel for stating alternatives to the swinging dicks strategy that produces this cycle of violence.

The unconcern of the Indian

The unconcern of the Indian media and politicians over the Gaza horrors baffles me. There is barely a mention in the online media and no comment has been by the bovine Indian leaders. Don't they care at all? The online media is still full of the usual Bolly and cricket news.
Truly this third rate nation will only react on injustices if the US,EU or Israel does so. It meekly follows the white nations.

By and large, Indian senior politicians come out as tired old men, intellectual lightweights, with poor rational skills and little diplomatic acumen.
They lack charisma, style, vitality, wit; Manmohan Singh or Mukerjee or Advani have those glacial or embalmed features; expression wooden or vacuous, manner deadpan. Are they the living dead?

Have they ever made an inelligent comment that has attracted notice in the West? I am reminded of what the Sri Lankan columnist wrote in CounterPunch(20Nov07)
”India will continue to be what it has always been, a big little country bobbing along like cork in water - all buoyancy and drift, but no substance (and direction)”.

Following the terror attacks on Mumbai 26-28 Nov 2008, the Wall Street Journal dismissed Indian leaders as 'weak-kneed' and with 'limited grasp of statecraft' (Nov 28, 2008)

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