Images from the Lal Masjid siege are imprinted on the minds of millions all across the globe. Smoke, guns, police officers, armed men, and women clad in black burqas were the pictures we saw splattered across newspapers and magazines. TV coverage of the Lal Masjid episode reflected what looked like war scenes: the soldiers at a standoff with militants, and blood red flames here and there.
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The Lal Masjid students first came onto the international stage when in January female students occupied a children's library to protest demolitions of "illegally built" mosques. Thereafter, string of kidnappings took place: in March, Lal Masjid students kidnapped three women who allegedly ran a brothel (and released them when the women promised to "lead a pious life), in May they kidnapped six policemen, and in June nine people (of whom were 7 Chinese nationals) at an acupuncture clinic, accusing them of running a brothel. But it was the date July 3 that sparked the confrontation between the military and the students: the students had grabbed the weapons of the policemen who were stationed at a building in front of Jamia Hafsa. The siege was mostly spearheaded by Maulana Abdul Aziz and his brother Abdul Rashid Ghazi (Ghazi says that they are "demanding a totally welfare state based on Islamic principles.")
Speaking of women, what did some of them have to say at a protest in Islamabad in May?
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Imran Khan, the famous cricketer turned politician, had this to say in an interview:
How can a couple hundred of women threaten the whole country of 160 million people? It's just the biggest joke going on...
This is General Musharraf showing the Taliban cross to the American Dracula. It's to scare the Americans that "Listen, if you don't do anything, that if you don't help me, I'm your man around here, this place will be swamped by this Taliban type religious extremists.
In fact, the Dawn voiced the same observation about the government's slow and drawn out response to the whole situation, albeit a little more subtly:
As the stand-off between the Lal Masjid brigade and security forces continued for the fifth day running [July 8] amid yet another round of fierce gunbattles on Saturday, residents of the curfew zone and nearby areas were beginning to question the strategy, or even ability of security personnel to deal with the situation.
As night fell on Saturday, there was still no sign of an end to the bloody conflict.
“Why security personnel specifically trained to handle such situations, have so far failed to overcome a handful of militants and the firebrand cleric, Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi, leading the resistance,” the people wondered.
Some people believe that the government is intentionally trying to prolong the issue to get some political mileage. They said they were not excepting the magnitude of resistance being offered by the hardcore militants.
Sporadic firing between the security forces and besieged rebels continued on and off throughout the day, but its intensity was quite low as compared to that of the previous four days.
For the first time during the five-day battle, the government tried to impose a censorship on the media by not allowing its personnel to proceed close to Lal Masjid.
On top of that, the final death toll is unknown. After a "sanitization" of the mosque, there appears to be a discrepancy between what the government claims and the actual facts on the ground:
Addressing the nation Thursday night, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf repeated his military's assertion that only 75 people had been killed inside the mosque, which commandos raided after armed Islamic extremists had turned into an anti-government stronghold.
Figures that Pakistani government officials have given for the number of people killed during the commando raid don't square with the facts.
Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad , the chief spokesman for the Pakistani army, who'd earlier announced a plan to "sanitize" the mosque before journalists were allowed to visit— bristled at the suggestion that more had been killed than the 75 bodies he'd said had been recovered.
"If someone says no, there are more bodies, then he is lying," he snapped.
According to Arshad, 85 men, women and children fled the scene after the fighting began. Together with the official death toll, that would account for 160 people at the mosque.
Another officer, Lt. Col. Baseer Haider , said 107 people had made it out of the mosque, pushing the total to 192.
But Muhammad Ijaz Ul Haq , the minister for minority and religious affairs, said there probably had been far more people inside when Pakistani forces stormed the compound.
"The last figures we had were between 250 and 500 people inside the mosque," he said. During negotiations with Ghazi, the cleric requested food for 250 to 400 people, Haq said.
If Haq's figure is correct, that would leave at least 90 people unaccounted for, and possibly hundreds more. Haq emphasized, though, that Pakistani forces had allowed some 1,200 people to flee the mosque before the battle, possibly saving hundreds of lives.
There was strong circumstantial evidence that the death toll may have gone into the hundreds.
A senior Pakistani government medical official said a team of doctors had been sent to a police facility in the Islamabad suburb of Sihala at about 5 a.m. Wednesday to inspect corpses from the mosque.
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of fears of being fired or jailed for talking to the news media, said a doctor notified him that he'd come prepared for 50 dead but then was told to expect 350 or 375. Ten more doctors and 10 paramedics were sent to the facility.
Why did this situation devolve to the point of hundreds dead, Maulana Abdul Aziz trying to escape in a burqa, more than a week long war, and the subsequent bombings and attacks? Pakistan's Human Rights Commission rightfully condemned the government for not having resolved the issue much quicker, echoing the Dawn:
The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) Balochistan chapter said the government operation at Lal Masjid was aimed at cheating the people because Jamia Hafsa and other extremist elements enjoyed complete support of the government and its intelligence agencies.
“Everyone knows that the government is openly supporting militants. The government orchestrated the Jamia Hafasa crisis. If the government was sincere in resolving the issue amicably, it could have done so much earlier,” HRCP Balochistan President Zahoor Ahmed Shawani said. He added that if the government could bomb the Baloch to establish “the writ of the government” why couldn’t it adopt a similar strategy against extremists elsewhere in the country.
Whatever the case, these hundreds of extremists have plenty of company across the border- the only differences being that in Pakistan, the fundamentalists wear black and white and chant "Allahu Akhbar"; whereas in India, the Hindu fundamentalists wear white and saffron and chant "Jai Jai Sri Ram."
To watch a 2 part report in English on the Lal Masjid siege, click here and here. Mind the predictable western spin on the situation and terrible pronounciation; but both have some good interviews.
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Dilip:
Next time you make irrevelant remarks about my marital status, whether I am a rabid bitch or not, or I am suffering from some sort of White liberal guilt trip, I will line edit/delete the pertinent parts.
Can you please name a Lal Masjid type incidence that has occurred in India that prompts you to make this highly silly and needless comparison ? The only one that closely resembles this situation is the Golden Temple incidence in 1984 involving Sikhs (but not Hindus).
The amount of arms and ammunition found in Lal Masjid was tantamount to making Lal Masjid itself an army training camp. The Islamic students and the Mullahs were trained by other Islamic terrorist groups under the auspicies of the Government of Pakistan. Lal Masjid itself is located in the Capital City of Islamabad and is only 2 miles away from the main government building.
This is what Dr. Ehsan Azari writes about this situation:
(Link : http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/2033/81/ )
Do read the whole article and find out what exactly is the situation in Pakistan.
It would do all of us a lot of good if people like you could be a little fair minded, rather than mindlessly hitting out at Hindus for every trouble that occurs in South Asia.
Dilip:
You don't think it is fair minded to point out that fundamentalism and religious extremism don't occur only among Muslims or in Pakistan? That India has its own brand of fundamentalism? The statement that you objected to said:
Do you deny this? It seems to me that Hindu fundamentalism is a lot more insidious and resilient these days because of the degree to which anti-Pakistani and anti-Muslim sentiments have seeped into popular consciousness. Among desis, I believe that no critique of Muslim extremism is ever complete without a parallel critique of Hindu extremism (or, for that matter, Buddhist extremism in Sri Lanka).
LeftyProf:
Perhaps you should look at Muslims for the answer. The Lal Masjid situation is Muslim upon Muslim violence, so the answer to this should be found in the Muslim world. Hindus have nothing to do with this.
The situation in India is different and cannot be compared to the Lal Masjid situation. But, by making this comparison, you are rather justifying Islamic Radicalism in Pakistan. This comparison is absurd.
Dilip
Lefty Prof:
Yes,I agree with you. It's a post I'm working on right now at the moment, so stay tuned...
Yup. I wrote a post mentioning "hardline Buddhists" which seemed like an oxymoron in and of itself- much like how I think "hardline Hindus" are. But it just goes to show you that extremists exist everywhere.
Hey Dilip--
As usual, your comments are boring, illogical, one sided, and annoying. But you point to the madrassas that have floursihed in Pakistan. Why don't you do a google search on how many Hindu shakas dot India? If you think that making the comparison between extremism in Pakistan with that in India is "absurd", you a) don't know what you're talking about and/or b)have nothing to say. You see what you want to see- and because you are anti Muslim, anti Pakistan, and anti everything except for Hindutva, then that is what you're going to see.
Lefty Prof, let Dilip be. He's the PTR pet koota who just barks a lot. Don't encourage him by petting him. It's useless to respond to these types.
Desi Italiana:
There is much difference between a pet koota and a Rabid Bitch.
So what is your point in your post ? That Muslims should not worry because Hindus are worse assholes ?
Why don't you answer my question about Muslim on muslim violence, which is what Lal Masjid is all about ? Why are you trying to deflect the attention to Hindus ?
The fact of the matter is that there is a problem with Islam and Muslim, and this is not just in India, but all over the world. If Muslims had problems only with Hindus then it would be one thing, but Muslims are fighting everyone else and within themselves -- From Chechnya, Phillipines, Thailand, India, Kosova, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan. So try to be a bit balanced here. I understand that you are pro Muslim and Pro Pakistan, and anti Hindu and anti India, but still, your conscience must prick you just a bit, I am sure.
What you call "Hindu Fundamentalism" exists in Pakistan 10 fold and is institutionalized. Pak is an ISLAMIC COUNTRY, not SECULAR. Hindus are 2nd citizens at best. From 30% of Pak Population, Hindus have been reduced to 2 %. (My Punjabi friend's family was from Quetta and was given an ultimatum -- Convert or Leave). So please, try to make some sense when you talk. Mindlessly parroting the Liberal/Secular ideology gives you a sense of false pride and give you a "feel good" elitist attitude. So get off your high high horse and see reality on the ground.
Now about Shakas -- These are not the same as Madrasas, and if you do not know the difference then try to find out before making absurd comments. Also, more Madrasas have come up in India than Shakas. All this is from funding from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Do some real research and you will find out. Don't just take my word for it.
So once again I say get off your elitist High horse. You remind me of the White Liberals who are always apologizing for black misbehavior. This is condescending behavior at best. Deep inside there is a deep sense of White superiority.
So get off your "White Guilt" complex and see things as they are.
PS: And find yourself a suitable mate (preferably a boy, preferably a Guju ), someone you can take home to mother. I am sure you are tired of living this elitist liberal life with some pseudo liberal strangers.
Desi Italiana:
Next time do not call anyone Koota.
And of course, a liberal always resorts to censorship.
Dilip:
This is my absolute last comment to you on this post, as it is a waste of my time.
You write comments which clearly demonstrate that you don't read a post entirely. You selectively choose what you want, which is what you did on my posts about Afghan refugees. That is why I never responded back to you- you have an irritating reading comprehension problem.
Did you read my post? I quoted:
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1. We at PTR have never deleted a comment unless it's clearly spam, ie advertisements, dirty links to porn sites, etc. Even when your comments have been caught in the spam filter, we've always retrieved them and posted them, is that not so?
2. We have never line deleted any comments from our readers who are not PTR bloggers.
3. I am not resorting to censorship. The fact is that you've made your point a thousand times, and all of your comments say the same thing. Readers can go to any of the recent posts and read all that you have to say, which is all basically the same. Thus, I will be deleting the redundant lines and/or lines about my personal life, finding a "suitable boy," and being a "rabid bitch."
You're also getting on my nerves, because you seem obsessed with the idea of me. In other posts, you've written things about me as a "Hindu girl" who is pro-Muslim, taking swipes at me for having been born and raised in America, and now you are talking about me bringing home a "suitable boy." Who the fuck do you think you are? You don't even know me. You've never met me. And you only know the tidbits of personal information I offer here- but that's enough of you to put together those pieces and paint your own picture of me. You spend hours clicking on our blog and writing comments. You check this blog over 20 times throughout the day. Get a fucking life. Then you resort to talking shit about me- a person you've never met. Get off my back, quit taking swipes at me, quit calling me a "girl." I'm a woman, I'm probably older than you are. And fuck off if you have a problem with me having been born and raised in America. Fuck off if you think I'm too tenderhearted towards refugees. Fuck off if you don't like this blog.
In all of your repetitive comments, you keep asking all of us why we don't address this issue, take that angle, etc. You do realize that we all have lives? That we all work full time (or more than that, in my case), study full time, etc? We write when we get the chance. We are completely open to submissions, suggestions, etc. But it's useless to keep pushing your own views on the topics we choose to write about. We set aside/make time to write about what we want.
Where does that leave you? You have one option: Get your own blog.
http://wordpress.com/
https://www.blogger.com/start
They are both completely free- no hidden fees, nothing. It takes around 5 minutes to set up an account. I'd recommend blogger. Blogger has even a poll widget which you can insert onto your blog. You can ask questions that are closest to your heart like,
- How much are Muslims in India responsible for India's problems?
0%
10%
50%
85%
100%
- Where should we transfer India's Muslims to?
Pakistan
concentration camps in India
the Thar dessert
no need to transfer- just kill them
- What is the biggest problem facing India today?
Muslims
Pakistan
All religions that are not Hindu
All fundamentalisms except for Hindutva
corruption, inept governance, political manipulation, and communalism
See?
You too can have the power of the pen. Why leave it up to all of the white liberals who are on a guilt trip to have a voice? Have your say too.
Please quit wasting our time. It's already time consuming for us to set aside time to write something. It's also doubly exhausting to keep track of all of your comments.
Desi Italiana:
Censorship !!!!
I suppose it is ok to call someone Koota, but not ok to be called a "rabid bitch". You want to dish it but cannot take it. (definition of Liberalism? )
I suppose it is ok to reveal where people live, but not ok when they make comments about your personal life ? Again, you can dish it but cannot take it.
Do not flatter yourself. My only interest is to stop mindless attacks on Hindus and Hinduism.
Don't want to.
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Desi Italiana:
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Dilip, you might have noticed that we don't really have any rules here, and this is because most of the people who read and comment on this blog, realize one very simple principle. It's a principle which most children understand at a very early age, which is why I haven't really stuck my nose into these discussions to tell you - it's something an older sibling or a parent or a teacher should say, and I feel very patronizing saying it - but here it is:
When you disagree with someone, it's not enough to say you disagree. That's all you do here. Someone says something and you say they're wrong. Not one single time in all of your comments here have you sought to PROVE wrong anything anyone has written. So when you say you've made some very valid points, I wish you'd point some of them out, because I can't remember having read a single one.
If your comments here are the textual manifestations of some sort of need to express your inner child, then by all means, continue. I'm happy that this space is doing you some good.
But if you really think that we bloggers attack Hindus and Hinduism, and you feel it's your duty to defend the world against us, you're doing yourself and your cause a great disservice.
Desi Italiana:
Why are my comments Irrelevant ? I have made some very valid points so why don't just reply back to them instead of censoring them (under the pretext of "personal attack" ) ?
Seems like you want things to fit to your preconceived conclusions, and I am challenging that assumption of yours.
Dilip:
I have deleted the rest of your comment, and left the bits where you have a problem with me.
Please e-mail with any other problems you have. If you feel it is necessary to shut down the discussion with irrevelant comments, then you can post them here; but your comments on my own posts and any other posts where you personally attack me will be subject to deletion.
Congratulate yourself being the first commentator to have caused a blogger to do this.
Thank you.
See post 10 & 11.
My points were CENSORED by Desi Italiana.
No thats not what I am here for. I am just trying to point out the mindless attacks on Hinduism made on here. Even if it is a Muslim on Muslim violence, somehow, on here, Hinduism is made the bad guy. So that is what I am objecting to.
I don't know why things had to devolve to this point or why DI had to bear the brunt of whatever it was that was so bad that it provoke her to delete comments, but I say, good riddance to whatever it was.
Hey so back to the masjid--wtf is going on now? I heard there was fresh violence but haven't had the chance to find news coverage lately. Any links?
It was a case of " I can dish it to you, but you cannot dish it to me" -- typical Leftie Liberal Censorship. The "White Liberal Guilt complex" got to DI, the RB of this post.
DI is thinking up of ways to blame this fresh Muslim on Muslim violence on to Hindus. Just hang in there, and she will come up with something.
PS: Read this post before she censors it.
Dilip-
Keep digging your hole.
For anybody who has followed your comments ever since you started posting will know that your accusations about my censoring you and dishing out personal attacks but not being able to handle it when someone else does it to me are full of shit. You whine like a big baby when I called you a koota- a personal attack which was admittedly in bad taste- yet why don't you go back and re-read all of your comments to me prior to my calling you a dog. Have you not consistently patronized me and made condescending remarks about me based on my gender? On many of my blogs you've referred to me as a "girl," about being "a naive and well intentioned girl," being an ABCD whose confusion must stop, amongst other things. You have no fucking right. You have no right in attacking a blogger that you do not know, especially based on her gender. You have no right in playing the victim when you have initiated personal attacks and then spam my posts with your utter nonsense about white liberal guilt trips and being hypocritical when I snap back. Your comments are not only full of ideological shit, but they are also sexist. And quite frankly, no one here- except people who think like you do- wants to read this stuff.
You've continued to take jabs at me for "censoring" you. What a fucking, immature joke you are. There is not one idea of yours that has been censored. You repeat the same thing over and over again. Obviously you are on summer vacation and have nothing better to do than repeat the same shit over and over again like a broken record.
So from now on, all of your comments on my posts will be deleted. Even if they do not contain any personal attacks against me. You can take that as censorship or whatever, I personally do not care. For any reader who is interested in your thoughts, they can go to the most recent posts and read your comments. They all say the same thing.
Have a nice day.
For those commentators who use any of the bloggers' handles to post comments, I will delete those comments and place you under moderation.
Thanks.