What a bunch of sick, self-deluded hypocrites. Tiwari's work is like the product of somebody handing a deranged 5 year old a paint brush. Have you seen the Bajrang Dal's cyberspace galleries of 'art'? And what is the connection (aside from the obvious, "we have been emasculated for thousands of years" shit) between Hindutvadis always displaying extremely disturbing and perverse sexual imaginations?

I think I understand how this developed:

oonwa, oonwa

osama bin laden comes to my dreams.
he penetrates karl marx on 100 copies of the communist manifesto.
i yelp!
oonwa, oonwa

i dream of reckoning one day.
i find no outlet for my passions!
saraswati tells me to paint.
oonwa, oonwa

i call to the winds to spread the message
i call to the web designer to set up internet presence
i spell my name wrong.
oonwa, oonwa

I'm in two minds: do we ignore this and dismiss it as more psycho Hindutvadi shit? Or do take notice because Bharat Bhavan (the gallery where this was shown) is a huge "cultural space" in Madhya Pradesh set up by the MP legislature and built by Charles Correa? It isn't a hole in the wall...its is the largest and most illustrious exhibition space in Madhya Pradesh, and it is RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT.

One thing I realized as I looked at the paintings again. After displaying scenes of brutal rape, murder of children etc. (there is not even the remotest degree of subtlety to these paintings)...the last painting in the series of a presumably Muslim child wrapped in a question mark with a caption that says "future of atrocity?" I really don't want to make the obvious parallels to the famous Shakha teaching of "Muslims are like snakes, easier to kill when they're young," but I am forced too. This is hate speech intended to incite violence. Where are the "secular groups" of Delhi who rushed to Chandramohan's defense? Does "secularism" not include efforts to thwart fascist propaganda, particularly when it is hosted and promoted BY STATE BODIES? Where are all our lovely commentators on the "stop locking up the wrong people" post who were so concerned about the rights of communities to their sentiment? Where is Dilip and his tolerant Hinduism? I know he still checks the blog...

See the last painting here: http://www.kailashtiwari.com/pages/26%20Future%20of%20Atrocity.html

See the Bharat Bhavan here: http://www.charlescorrea.net/
Its got flash so go to the exhibitions and museums section

Aatish:

How come it is YOU who gets to decide what is offensive and what is inciteful ? I suppose if a Hindu artist had painted a nude picture of Prophet Mohammad, you would have certainly found it inciteful, not offensive. If Muslims can create a riot in India for Saddam's hanging, then what to speak of a nude picture of Prophet Mohammad.

I think it is pretty duplicitous to say that Tiwari's work is inciteful. After all most of the painting were about vitims of terrorist bombings, and, Osama and Musharraf, enemies of India, do not deserve to be glorified, but rather villainised as they were shown on those paintings. So critique of Tiwari's work as inciteful is only an attempt to silence the Hindus from expressing their frustrations about being targetted by terrorists. Here again we see the lies, deception and double standards of the Left.

Again, the Left in its quest to keep the Hindu down is calling names. Hindutvadi as a genocidal maniac??? Since when is self expression and self defense a genocidal idea ? Hmmm as far as I can remember, there is no concept of Jihad or Crusade in Hindu religion. These are the specialties of the Abrahamic traditions, as you can see with Islamic fighting in so many countries. And, last time I checked Muslims were eagerly buying properties in Hindu areas for raising their children...So lets be honest here.

Why dont you address why Haren Pandya was murdered ?? Now it is not safe for a Hindu to even take a moring walk ???

Ok...compensation...sure, it should be done equally. No problem with that....

M.F. Hussein has been driven into exile

No dude...M F Hussein is running away from the law. He is required by the India courts, but is evading. He was not asked to leave, but left voluntarily. He can come back anytime he wants.

Unfortunately, the fundamentalist Left and Islamists play the victim card here. If Hussein is innocent then let him show up in court. No one is stopping him.

So lets talk honestly here...so far Honesty has not a strength of yours.

Parda ek na ek din to khul hi jaata hai.

Salaam !!!

Aatish:

Hinduism never teaches to burn Muslims. Can you tell me anywhere in Hindu scriptures where is says so ? (I am using the same argument Muslims use when they blow up trains, temples, non believers). What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

In any case, you dont seem to have a problem when Muslims blew up a bomb in a temple, burnt the Godhra train, Bombay train blasts, Swaminaryan temple massacre. You seem to conveniently ignore Muslim atrocities.

I guess its only when Hindus fight back that you have a problem.

Hmmmm.... wonder who is full of hate.

Dilip, you can exhaust even the bitchiest poster. I'm not going to address all your "one day the curtain will open" garbage, and you delusion that it isn't safe for a "Hindu" to take a walk in India...

As to M.F. Hussein, I'm sure the violent attacks by the Bajrang Dal (endorsed by the then Maharashtra Government) and the death threats haven't helped. And I think this may have something to do with "no one stopping him," um dude he would probably be attacked before he even reached the courthouse. Its also pretty sad it took the Hindutva forces in India over twenty years to realize they were offended by his paintings. One would expect better from the followers of an ideology which discovered the atom bomb before recorded history.

Dilip, do you have issues with reading comprehension? Because as far as I remember, I pretty clearly mentioned that the fact that Hinduism has no Jihadi concept means very little in terms of the genocidal capacity of Hindutva followers. You have to deal with the argument before reiterating yours regains any validity.

To address your first point: Dilip, in your vast bilingual vocabulary, you seem to lack the entire concept of "context." Context, as well as content, makes something inciting rather than just purely offensive. If in Karachi, there were a series of exhibitions depicting Hindus as evil, raping, anti-national thugs, and there was a (recent) context of violent agitations against Karachi Hindus, and the paintings were likely to add to an already rising tide of Muslim chauvinism that had resulted in atrocities against minorities; then yes, this would absolutely constitute incitement. This hypothetical situation (if you havent noticed already) is directly analogous to the Tiwari paintings.

Want to talk about honesty Dilip? You wrote:

If Muslims can create a riot in India for Saddam’s hanging

Nice wording, good way to describe a protest march turned bad in which the only life lost was you guessed it...a 12 year old Muslim boy. Wait, whose property was destroyed again? Oh right, Muslim shops were targeted in the "self-defense" actions of the Hindu Senna. Hmm, this rioting, looting, destruction and burning by the Hindu Senna started after a rumour of "idol desecration," sound familiar? Funny no one knows where, how or which idol was desecrated. But it doesn't matter, the reaction is only 'self-defense.'

Interestingly, the same guys that defend "freedom of speech" by supporting M F Hussain's nude paintings of Hindu goddesses have a problem with paintings that relate to actual incidents that have occurred.

Why the double standard ?

Thanks Aatish for the web link to Mr. Tiwari’s work, at best I found it juvenile.
In particular, this painting of his reminded me of an event back home (Nepal) of this.

Dilip,

There is a difference between a work of art that offends community sentiments and one that is an incitement to violence. M.F. Hussein work is of the former variety, his art does not encourage Muslims to go out an slaughter Hindus en mass, nor does it contain content that depicts actual Hindu people in an offensive manner. Tiwari's work is an incitement to violence against Muslims, particularly in its sequence and in the last painting. Now repeat the first sentence of this comment over to your self several times, thats it...one, two, three. Now do it again. Understand the difference? I doubt it.

Ok, now on to the next lesson.

There is a difference between scripture and the actions of those who believe in that scripture. The following two words are non synonymous: Muslim and Terrorist. The following two terms are also not synonymous: Hindu and Hindutva believing genocidal maniac. I don't to get into a debate about scripture because it is fairly meaningless in understanding the EXTREMELY DIVERGENT ways in which people (both Hindus and Muslims) act. You are right, despite the fact that Hinduism (i'll take your word for it) doesn't teach Hindus to burn Muslims, some Hindus have burn Muslims, in Bombay in 1992, in Gujarat in 2002 etc. If you actually read the statements of terrorists, in Akshardham for example, you would notice that they justify their actions more often on a perceived (or real) injustice than they do on scripture. That doesn't make the action any more right, but it does support your "Quraan is an evil book because its basic point is world domination and violence and the killing of infidels, so all Muslims are evil" argument.

You seem to believe that "what is good for the goose is good for the gander." Fine, lets take you on your word. Lets talk about compensation, rehabilitation and penal justice. I guarantee you that the compensation packages for Godhra and Akshardham have been better implemented than those for Gujarat or Malegaon. I guarantee you that the compensation package for the Bombay Blasts is 7 times greater than the compensation for Malegaon. There are 221 people booked under POTA for Haren Pandya's murder, many many of whom have been proven to have no involvement and yet are still kept in custody on other (false) charges. How many people are in jail out of the thousands that participated in Gujarat 2002? How many police officers identified by the Srikrishna commission for abhorrent behavior during the 1992 Bombay riots have been convicted? None. How many have been promoted? Many. Contrast that to the number of people convicted for the Bomb Blasts. If you want to go back to the subject of THIS post, then M.F. Hussein has been driven into exile, while Kailash Tiwari is protected by the Bajrang Dal. If you believe that killing begets killing, you should belief that punishment deserves equal punishment, no?

It is really annoying that you asked me about M.F. Hussein on my post, and about communal violence on Raghu's. But logic is not really a strength of yours, so I forgive you.

Aatish:

Apparently, I havent exhausted you.

you delusion that it isn’t safe for a “Hindu” to take a walk in India…

You gotta be kidding. A Hindu man taking a morning walk is assasinated by a Muslim. And you say its a delusion ? And this in Gujarat, where Hindus are accused of Genocide ? Pot calling the kettle black.

About Hussain:

Salman Rushdie did not flee England like a coward, when threatened by Muslims. So why is Hussain so scared ? Hinduism does not have the concept of Fatwa (although I think it worth borrowing). The Government has agreed to give him all protection necessary, but he still refuses to show up. Instead, he and his supporters, choose to blame others, rather than accept responsibility for thier deeds.

If in Karachi, there were a series of exhibitions depicting Hindus as evil, raping, anti-national thugs, and there was a (recent) context of violent agitations against Karachi Hindus, and the paintings were likely to add to an already rising tide of Muslim chauvinism that had resulted in atrocities against minorities; then yes, this would absolutely constitute incitement. This hypothetical situation (if you havent noticed already) is directly analogous to the Tiwari paintings.

This is your way of excusing Muslims for their misdeeds. Hindus in Karachi, or for that matter in Pakistan, have never taken up arms. They have never blown up trains, or assasinated people on morning walks, or taken out a "julus" for the hanging of one of their brothers. I just dont see the relevance of your hypothetical example.

Just tell me how would Muslims, react if a nude pic of Prophet Mohammad was drawn ?

Its also pretty sad it took the Hindutva forces in India over twenty years to realize they were offended by his paintings

I agree. But better late than never. Too long the Lefties have try to push back Hindus, and now that Hindus are awakening, the Lefties are bitching and moaning.

Also about Saddam, what was the purpose of supporting Saddam ?? A mass murderer is finding supporters among Muslims in India ? Who is behind all the demonstrations ? Instead you blame the Hindus. Next thing, Muslims will be creating a "julus" for Osama.

And its not right to blame Hindus for Muslims fault. Many years ago, USA Evangelist Pat Robertson called the Islamic Prophet a terrorist. And Muslims in India went on a riot. What the heck is the logic behind that ?? Ofcourse, commie/islamists like you will find reasons to blame Hindus for that. Do you guys ever take any self responsiblity ?????????

Hey Dilip, what's the logic of burning effigies of Richard Gere when he fake kisses an actress on stage for entertainment purposes?

Muslims don't have the entire market covered on irrational displays of anger at things that don't mean anything. Hindus can play that game too!

And really, Richard Gere? He's not even relevant here anymore. Ryan Seacrest? Now there's a burning effigie I could get behind.**

**Denotes humor.

Hey Dilip, what’s the logic of burning effigies of Richard Gere when he fake kisses an actress on stage for entertainment purposes?

Muslims don’t have the entire market covered on irrational displays of anger at things that don’t mean anything. Hindus can play that game too!

Please do not compare buring effigies to blowing up trains, temples, creating a riot. Pat Robertson's comments created a riot when shops were burned (mostly Hindus), properties destroyed.

There is a healthy way to vent anger and a destructive way to do it. Hindus chose the former and Muslims the latter.

There is a healthy way to vent anger and a destructive way to do it. Hindus chose the former and Muslims the latter.

This is probably the stupidest or jahaliati (thats just for you Dilip) statement ever made on PTR. Hindus have a "constructive way" of venting anger. Is "constructive" the term you want to use to describe Bhagalpur 1989, Bombay 1992, Delhi 1984, and Gujarat 2002? Yes, it is if you want to "construct" a Hindu Rashtra. Just say it Dilip...we are all waiting.

Is “constructive” the term you want to use to describe Bhagalpur 1989, Bombay 1992, Delhi 1984, and Gujarat 2002?

Aatish, You are deliberately trying to confuse the issue.

You conveniently do not mention the cause of Hindu retaliation, which is Muslim aggression. Ofcourse, when attacked one has to fight back. But needlessly burning, looting and destroying properties in India for remarks made by some hate monger (Pat Robertson), or creating a julus to support Saddam is nothing but fanaticism.

Please look inside yourself before blaming Hindus. It is the Muslims who are fighting in numerous countries all over the world, not Hindus.

And if you want to construct a Dar-us-Salam, then tell us Aatish....we are also waiting.

Yes Dilip, I would like to construct a Dar us-Salam (Home of Peace), which I think is connected to the construction of the a Dar ul-Insaan (Home of Humanity), which in turn has very little to do with the construction of a Dar ul-Islam, which is what I think you were implying I want.

I am not confusing the issue, you are confusing the issue of terrorist attacks (train and temple bombings) with processions such as the ones taken out after Pat Robertson's statement and Saddam Hussein's hanging. In the latter example, you forgot to remind everyone that most of the property destroyed, and the only life lost was Muslim...i guess this is another example of just retaliation. You never did respond to my challenge of telling me what the Muslim atrocity that sparked Bombay 1992 was? I'll up the ante by asking you what exactly was the Muslim atrocity that sparked Bhagalpur 1989, in which over 1000 people lost their lives. If you want to use Godhra as an excuse for the systematic slaughter of 2500 people, which has displaced over 100,000 (wait, how many people were displaced, left destitute and homeless by the Bombay blasts?), then fine (actually not fine, it rather disgusting). But you cannot do the same for everything else. Indira Gandhi's assassination was an attack on Hindus which warranted the mass slaughter of Sikhs all through India, particularly Delhi?

I know you love to treat people as monolithic groups. The atrocities of Hindu nationalists do not tar Hindus who are not complicit or involved, not a single person on this blog takes that position. Not a single person on this blog has characterized the Bombay blasts and train bombings as legitimate "retaliations," though the perpetrators have claimed they are. Not a single person on the blog justifies the loss of life in those events by claiming "Hindus deserved this after Bombay and Gujarat," or thinks it is not extremely tragic. You however, are perfectly content to justify the slaughter of Muslims by simply mentioning Muslim committed terrorist attacks. I wish you would just be honest with yourself and us and admit that you categorically hate Muslims and Islam and you prefer them dead or destitute. At least that way, you could be proud of some consistency, rather than leaping through these rings of logic that make your argument so easily collapse (but unfortunately not go away). No amount of logic, no amount of fact, no amount of empathy will change your mind. You are the way you are because of the way you think about yourself, about history and about the other people who live among you. You refuse to challenge those things at all...and no matter how hard you try, you cannot tar me with the same brush. Look inside yourself Dilip.

Here are some problems that might be afflicting dilip:

a) he might have a small penis
b) he might be gay and not able to handle it very well
c) he might have a way of going about the world that leads him to have no friends
d) he might desperately need attention

regardless of what the causes are, there's nothing that he says that's constructive, and the only thing that's redemptive about his comments is that he doesn't make them more often (which would be difficult, actually).

so why are we playing this game?

I really just wanted to mention Ryan Seacrest in a blog comment-- but you're right Dr. A-- he's not worth the energy.

By the way, I just stumbled across this blog and I want to commend you on really doing justice to issues facing south asian countries. It's so rare to find people like you. I'll definitely keep reading.

Agreed, Neetu. Ryan Seacrest is a tool. 100%.

Dr A:

Rhetorical exercise? Flinging arguments to see how they are reacted to...which ones stick and why? Obviously, I'm not going to change Dilip's mind about anything, I knew that before the first time I ever responded to him. But there is something to be learned in every interaction. That doesn't make it less frustrating. Nor is this interaction ultimately productive, but there are productive aspects to it. You can't dismiss that by linking his views to some rude emasculation.

For God's sake, everybody quit responding to Dilip, talking about Dilip, referring to Dilip and immaturely speculating on his alleged penis problems. If it's not productive to engage with him, if you know that you're not going to change anybody's mind, then let it go.

He's not the only commentator and reader of PTR just because he has single handedly spammed the threads of any blog post he's come across with idiotic comments. There are others reading and writing here, and frankly, it's tiring to see Dilip's name splattered everywhere.

In an earlier post I had written the following line"

Parda to ek din Khul hi jayega

The veil has now been lifted and now the true colors of these Pseudo leftie fundamentalists have been revealed. Dr. Anonymous, I thank you for your comments for you have revealved the true nature of the Lefties.

Ab asli chehra samne ayaa hai

Deep inside the Leftie is just a hate monger. If he cant have things his way, then he will do whatever it takes to put the other down.

And finally, Dr. Anon, dont worry about my sexuality. Even with my small penis, I have been able to screw your mother to her satisfaction.

But that is nothing compared to what you guys have been fucking : MOTHER INDIA.

The biggest rape in history of India is being committed by these pseudo Lefties.

Lets see:

Ms. DI "Maniben turned Mod" writes:

I’ve never seen Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan except in photos, but it must suck living in refugee camps

Does she even care about Hindu refugees from Kashmir ? Over a million displaced, and over 20,0000 killed ? Yet, she is first to jump on Hindus for Gujarat. And no mention of Godhra Muslim terrorism.

What to do when a Desi girl is shamed into supporting the enemy ? She cares more about Afghan Muslim refugees than the Hindus and Sikhs who were forced to leave Afghanistan. A Hindu girl supporting the Muslim Ummah. Wow, a Muslim girl would never support the Hindu Ummah. Ofcourse, she believes she is doing the right thing. Typical liberal.

Other points:

What to do when Muslims take out a Julus in support of Saddam ? Well, blame Hindus for any trouble. Its that simple. But WHY TAKE OUT A JULUS FOR A MASS MURDERER ? Well, you are not supposed to ask that. Sorry, I asked.

When Muslims riot for comments by Pat Robertson...well blame Hindus for (make up any reason).

When Islam gets violent (as it is all over the world today), then say " Dar-us-Salam" is a HOUSE OF PEACE. Of course do not mentions that Dar-us-salaam is made up of Muslims mainly, with Sharia, and Kafirs will live as second class citizen. Hmm..wonder what will happen to the Hindus in India. Ofcourse, so many muslims think that India is their "jaagir" because of the Moghuls. How many Dawood Ibrahims will be created when the Ummah takes over India ? I wonder.

When Hindus object to Hussain's painting, then use freedeom of speech and the label "Hindutva". But when Danish cartoons are published, then there is no freedom of speech, but riots and fatwa. But, that is ok. It is ok for Muslims, but not others. Sorry, Hindus, your are kafirs. No rights for you.

In fact if a Hindu even tries to be proud of himself then use the label "Hindutva".

Lets see what Mr. Mark Tully, the BBC reporter, said recently in an Indian paper:

Is he toeing a soft Hindutva line? Tully laughs, “I’m not. Actually, in my book I’m arguing against secularists who see things only in black and white, who will brand you as Hindutva if you mention the Vedas.”

Typical of Bhaloo and others. All Hindus must be labelled Hindutvadis.

More from Mark Tully:

Instead of globalisation, Tully is championing Indianisation, not necessarily because the Marlborough boy, who was told that sex outside marriage was sin, had a revelation in Khajuraho. Actually, the epiphany about India’s pluralism happened one cold Christmas night in Delhi — the midnight Mass, Tully noticed, was attended by Sikhs and Hindus unlike in London where his Catholic friends would refuse to step inside an Anglican church.

Yes Sikhs and Hindus are open minded. Chrisitians are not. Muslims are not.

There is more"

When Salman Rushdie is awarded the Knighthood, then Fatwa, riots, buring effigies (like that of Gere, wow). But no mention of that by the pseudos here.

Angry protesters in several cities torched British flags and beat them with their shoes in protest at the accolade for the Indian-born writer of “The Satanic Verses” and chanted “Death to Britain, death to Rushdie.”

“If somebody has to attack by strapping bombs to his body to protect the honour of the Prophet, then it is justified,” Pakistani Religious Affairs Minister Ijaz-ul-Haq told the national assembly.

Dang. In Pak assembly, they talk of strapping bombs. This is what happens when you divide a country and give it to those faithful to the desert folks.

Mr. Aatish, will ofcourse, conveniently forget to mention it.

So Mr. Aatish, you must first face the atrocities committed by the Muslims towards Hindus. After all Bin Quasin raided India and Killed 30,000 Hindus in one day. Ghazni killed millions. Aurangzeb and Babur destroyed Hinds temples and built Mosques over it. So what is happening today is a result of the past. (Muslims have done the same in Persia towards the Zoroastrian faith )

You cannot rape someone and then say, sorry, but now lets forget everything. Or totally deny that you raped them. Face the truth and then try to move forward.

Stop blaming Hindus for all Muslim problems. Hindus are moving on, and doing quite well wherever they go. They do not have problems in other countries, unlike Muslims. So again, I urge, stop blaming others. Look inside and meditate, like Prophet Mohammad did for 40 days. But dont let your kundalini get stuck before it reaches the Sahasrahar Chkakra, or you will be under delusions.

Dilip:

I don't know how many times I have to say this to you: stop assimilating the opinions, ideas and positions of a group of people into a single poorly constructed whole that you then proceed to defame (or celebrate)--whether they are Hindus, Muslims, Leftists or any other such thing.

Dr. A's comments were as jahaliati as yours, I don't deny that. Your response proved however, that you are no more capable of appropriate forms of discussion, tumhara purdah bhi uth gaya Dilip. I will not engage with you on a historical plane, though the histories you reiterate are reductive and ignorant.

Two things before:
1)I am appalled by the reactions of many (particularly the Pakistani government) to the whole Rushdie issue. They are quite retarded, and represent a sad attempt to further solidify a type of power over the masses of Pakistan. This issue is being used by Islamic governmental elites to distract Pakistanis from the (obviously) immanent issues facing that country. I have been preparing a post based on Eijaz ul-Haq's speech on the matter.
2) I am deeply interested in learning more about the politics of Kashmir, particularly about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits. There are a few problems facing me (and other people wishing to know more) in this regard, a) Kashmiri Pandits are a highly politicized and protected group, and if you talk to anybody doing research in Delhi, the Hindu Right has made it very difficult for researches not belonging to the RSS to gain access to the community, b) the resources present on the web, trust me i have tried, are totally inadequate. Not a single website I have been able to find situates the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits in any coherent history, that takes the repressive actions of the militants, the Indian State and the Pakistani State all into consideration. I am not interested in groups or websites that monopolize the suffering of a ethnic group to further their own interests vis-a-vis Indian or Pakistani nationalism. All the people of Kashmir have suffered enormously due to being caught between two, and now three (with the rise of the militants) powers capable of great violence.
If Dilip, you have any suggestions for sources, or if you have any contacts within the Kashmiri Pandit (refugee) community in Delhi, I would love to avail of whatever you can offer.

You are caught in your own binaries Dilip. In the severe opposition of Hindu to everything else, you have totally lost any space for caring about people as humans who live and suffer now. You can list the crimes of Ghazni, Muhammad bin Qasim and Aurangzeb all you want, but you cannot justify atrocities like Gujarat based on their actions. You cannot justify the death of 2500 people, the displacement of a 100,000, and resulting plight of the Muslim community in Gujarat based on Godhra or Kashmir or 9th century Sindh. Tell me Dilip, have you suffered one day in your life because of the crimes of Muhammad bin Qasim? Did Aurangzeb behead YOUR father? Don't you realize that your historical anger has no material reality? That it is just a tool to inflame your sentiments toward particular political ends?

You also have to understand that what is so depressing and infuriating about Gujarat is that it is not a 'Hindu' atrocity as such, it is also a STATE atrocity, committed by a state that claims to be LIBERAL AND DEMOCRATIC, not Hindu. It is sad that you hold the Indian State to the same standards that you attribute to Muslim fundamentalist militants in Kashmir. Don't you think thats a problem? Do you want to live in a country in which the state behaves like militants?

Dr. Anonymous, I thank you for your comments for you have revealved the true nature of the Lefties.

You're very welcome. Now will you go away? I can't speak on behalf of the blog, but I personally find you distasteful, annoying, boring, and, aboveall repetitive. Plus, I don't appreciate your constant use of Hindi--Mother India has many tongues (which we should know, since we're allegedly making love to her).

And finally, Dr. Anon, dont worry about my sexuality. Even with my small penis, I have been able to screw your mother to her satisfaction.

But that is nothing compared to what you guys have been fucking : MOTHER INDIA.

Thanks, I'll have to ask both of them about it the next time we speak. I lost the phone number for Mother India though--do you happen to have it? I'm kind of lonely and my current booty calls aren't panning out.

your response proved however, that you are no more capable of appropriate forms of discussion

What's not appropriate about accusing people of having small penises and responses that say that they're having sex with your mother? That's the level that this dialogue has been at for ages...personally, I think I just put it in its appropriate context--outside of the realm of politics and in the light of what it really is -- immaturity unveiled.

I'm glad I was able to participate in it, if sad that it lowers others' estimation of me. But what can you do? Price of engaging.

Dilip:

By now I see you as the PTR pet koota who just barks a lot, so I simply don't read your comments anymore. But I came across this comment of yours.

I had said ON ANOTHER POST (which you bring up here on this thread):

I’ve never seen Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan except in photos, but it must suck living in refugee camps

Your response:

Does she even care about Hindu refugees from Kashmir ?

Are you fucking stupid? Really, do you have reading comprehension problems? I write about refugees IN PAKISTAN and you bring up Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir? And the fact that I'm not not talking about Hindus in Kashmir is indicative that I don't care about that topic? Your comments have no fucking logic: by the same token, if you haven't mentioned the rights of gays at all in any of your redundant, redundant, redundant comments, does that mean I can accuse you of being a homophobic?

She cares more about Afghan Muslim refugees than the Hindus and Sikhs who were forced to leave Afghanistan.

Here's your fucking post on Hindus and Sikhs in Afghanistan, you wanker:

http://www.passtheroti.com/?p=138

Now you can go shit all over that thread like you have elsewhere, like a baboon who has to poop all over the place to mark his territory.

What to do when a Desi girl is shamed into supporting the enemy ? She cares more about Afghan Muslim refugees than the Hindus and Sikhs who were forced to leave Afghanistan. A Hindu girl supporting the Muslim Ummah. Wow, a Muslim girl would never support the Hindu Ummah.

How did you find me out? In fact, I'm a self hating Hindu. That's why I write about refugees in PAKISTAN and not Hindus in the same post. Furthermore, I am in the process of converting to Islam. My new name is going to be Ayesha Bibi. Do you like it? Then, I'm going to marry a Muslim and have 900 Muslim babies to overtake the 800 million plus Hindu population in India.

Are you fucking happy now?

***

Let me tell you something: you're freakishly obsessed with Muslims. Why? Why is that your answer to everything? Hey, Dilip, why was there an earthquake in India? Your response: Muslims. Why does the earth rotate? Muslims. What makes 2+2? Muslims.

Furthermore, your logic is stupid. Didn't you ask Vijay Prashad on this thread why he, as a self defined communist, was living in America? Apart from fact that this makes no sense (as if America was the embodiment of capitalism, and as such, anybody who lives in America is a capitalist) let me use your own illogical logic against you: what the fuck are you doing sitting on the East Coast of the US and at the same time talking shit about "Goras", "Gora thinking", and accusing people of being "slaves to the whites"?

***

Instead of sitting all day long and spending hours pooping all over PTR threads, get yourself a blog:

https://www.blogger.com/start

There, you can launch your fucking Hindu jihad.

What to do when a Desi girl is shamed into supporting the enemy ? She cares more about Afghan Muslim refugees than the Hindus and Sikhs who were forced to leave Afghanistan.

Don't go through life not being able to read, Sri @#$* Dilip. I NEVER spoke about religion in my post on Afghan refugees in Pakistan. So why the fuck are you saying that I am talking about Afghan Muslims? How do you know that those Afghan refugees didn't include Hindus and Sikhs?

I repeat, get yourself a blog. Do it right away- no time to lose for the Hindu people! Launch your virtual Hindu Jihad so that Hindus all over the world can read it and unite.

I promise, I'll pay you regular visits on your blog.

Aatish:

Yes, I do tend to simplify certain issues, but I think the Left does the same, just in language that is better than mine. I do grant my language skills need some honing and I plan to take some classes to improve myself.

However, I do stand by whatever I say here. I am not here to be a troll or try to get a kick out of upsetting people. But, I do believe that the Left needs addressed aggressively, because they tend to create the rules on how discourse or policy is to be set. The Left in general is quite aggressive against people that dont agree with them. The attitude of the Left in fact is quite condescending towards those they do not like.

That is why I say, enough of talk, time for action. Just words have not helped Hindus. Hindu tolerance and peacefulness is considered as a weakness and the Left seems to take advantage in bashing Hindus with lies, deception and its propaganda.

Moving on, I would say History is quite important, as history tends to repeat itself. What Bin Quasim, Ghazni, Aurangzeb have done tends to serve as models to many modern day muslims. So that is why some kind of an acknowledgement by Muslims would give closure. But many muslims (privately) believe that Islam is the only one and Kafirs deserse the bin Quasim and Ghanzni treatment.

The Kashmir situation is one such example. As long as Sufism was dominant Hindus and Muslims lived in peace. But with Saudi sponsored Wahabism taking over Kashmir, a war was declared on Hindus. In the late 1980,s Hindu households started finding notes on their doors asking them to leave or get killed. The Indian state nor the Kashmir government rushed to help Hindus, who were then systematically attacked, killed and ethnically cleansed out. Now the Muslim response is typical -- Islam is not bad, but this is the act of a few bad people, but not Islam. Well, this excuse has been given for 1000 years. When the rest of the Ummah does not help stop this violence against Hindus, or try to stop the bad muslims, and the INdian state or the Kashmir government does not help the Hindus either, then what is the recourse ?

The Kashmir situation is now almost 20 years old, but most of the Lefties always complain about Gujarat. (In the early 90s, I had met a Kashmiri refugee in Bombay, who was living in the slums of Bandra. He was complaining about the GENOCIDE OF Hindus in Kashmir. At that time I had no clue of what was going on in Kashmir -- THE MEDIA HAS BEEN SO SILENT ON THIS GENOCIDE. Hindus have been supressed by the Leftie media -- another case of PRASHADISM).

You also have to understand that what is so depressing and infuriating about Gujarat is that it is not a ‘Hindu’ atrocity as such, it is also a STATE atrocity, committed by a state that claims to be LIBERAL AND DEMOCRATIC, not Hindu. It is sad that you hold the Indian State to the same standards that you attribute to Muslim fundamentalist militants in Kashmir. Don’t you think thats a problem? Do you want to live in a country in which the state behaves like militants?

The above statement of yours is another weapon in the war against Hindus. Maybe you do not realise that it is a weapon. Muslim and Leftie response is -- How can we (the State, Hindus etc.) stoop to the level of the militants ? Well, this exactly is what gives fodder to the militants, as they realise that there will be no consequences for their actions.

Think about it, the Militants can attack, kill, slaughter, rape any Hindu Civilian, because he believes (due to Islam) that he is right in his attack. So he is following Sharia. For him Secular law does not apply. But the Secular state does not protect Hindus, nor can Hindus fight back, because they are accused of attacking innocents. So in other words, Hindus are just sitting ducks.

(Another example of such an Islamic war is in Thailand where Muslims are killing innocent Buddhist priests, women, students, children. I dont think the Left can blame "Hindutva" here. )

The Gujarat incidence was just frustration on part of Hindus that no one was protecting them. Thus some Hindus resorted to the same tactics that militants use.

That is why I keep saying Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahin mantein. Unless one knows that there will be consequences, innocent non muslims will be in danger.

Eet ka Jawab pattar se dena hi hoga.

Enough for now....

PS: On Kashmir I dont have any one source. I just read whatever I can get my hands on and make up my own mind. Please do believe that I was quite neutral until I saw the duplicity of the Left.

DOUBLE STANDARDS

Once again Indian Muslims riot in India for Salman Rushdie. But when Hindus speak up for themselves against Hussain (no rock throwing, mind you), then the Left is all over them.

Pseudo Leftie Fundamentalist double standards. Mr. Aatish, can you explain the logic of violence in India by Muslims opposed to Rushdie ? There are no Hindus here to blame, are there ?

Violence erupts over author's knighting
SRINAGAR, June 23 (UPI) -- Violence erupted in Kashmir between police and protesters angered by Britain's decision to confer knighthood on author Salman Rushdie.
Protesters in the city of Srinagar threw rocks at police, who then fired tear gas, DNA reported Saturday.

Its very simple: when Muslims riot for stupid reasons, the police lathi-charge / arrest / fire live rounds at them. When Hindus riot for stupid reasons, the police lathi-charge / arrest / fire live rounds at whoever they are rioting about. Its that simple. Analogous cases require "police" to be interpreted as "the State," or "the Army," but apart from that, its just very simple. Husain is in exile, Tiwari is being hosted by the state government's best gallery.

SRINAGAR, June 23 (UPI) — Violence erupted in Kashmir between police and protesters angered by Britain’s decision to confer knighthood on author Salman Rushdie.

Thats why it is not a double standard. Thats the logic.

When Hindus riot for stupid reasons, the police lathi-charge / arrest / fire live rounds at whoever they are rioting about.

I'm assuming you oversimplified to exclude rioting without religious strife as a primary cause because of what you were responding to, but I just want to put on the record that people got lathi-charged, fired at, arrested, and killed at places like Nandigram for largely different reasons.

Sometimes, mainly because I'm tired of hearing about the "communalism" debate and little else (not from you...from Indian and ABD left circles in general), I wonder to what extent the the discussion detracts from looking at other components of what induces people who are usually fairly peaceable to revolt (land acquisition, state efforts to homogenize culture/language/etc., and so forth).

And who, in practice, sets the agenda for the debate on "communalism" (BJP? RSS? VHP?)?

I don't know.

I just want to put on the record that people got lathi-charged, fired at, arrested, and killed at places like Nandigram for largely different reasons.

And surprisingly, many of the worst affected were Dalit and Muslim. Its not that simple, we dont need to 'shift the debate from communalism,' all these things naturally work on/in confluence with each other. Naturally poverty and hyper-nationalism feed of each other, as do competition for land, jobs etc. hence the ability of the Hindu right to mobilize dalits against Muslims in Gujarat, or tribals against muslims in rural Gujarat. Or "Hindu" tribals against Christian tribals.

And who, in practice, sets the agenda for the debate on “communalism” (BJP? RSS? VHP?)?

What? I don't get it...

Naturally poverty and hyper-nationalism feed of each other, as do competition for land, jobs etc. hence the ability of the Hindu right to mobilize dalits against Muslims in Gujarat, or tribals against muslims in rural Gujarat. Or “Hindu” tribals against Christian tribals.

Hindu mobilisation against Christians specially is due to the aggressive Chrisian evangelisation program in India which is part of the Christian attempt at world conversion.

Mobilisation against Muslims is just a reaction to Muslim's past behaviours.

And surprisingly, many of the worst affected were Dalit and Muslim. Its not that simple, we dont need to ’shift the debate from communalism,’

Yeah, obviously. That's why I didn't say that--I just did it. I also pointed out that I was speaking from my personal interest (i.e. more to do with economics/land acquisition than communalism at this point), not from the standpoint of having conducted extensive social analysis about what driving factors are in the situations that become touchstones for discussions of Indian social violence. Speaking of which:

all these things naturally work on/in confluence with each other. Naturally poverty and hyper-nationalism feed of each other, as do competition for land, jobs etc. hence the ability of the Hindu right to mobilize dalits against Muslims in Gujarat, or tribals against muslims in rural Gujarat. Or “Hindu” tribals against Christian tribals.

I hear this all the time and I've said similar things, but at this point, we should push beyond this towards a legiitimate social analysis of particular situations and the forces that created them that helps one understand what's going on. For example, the dominant narrative among people care is generally: Gujarat pogroms were primarily organized around Sangh and state violence against Muslims; Nandigram was organized around CPM and state violence against people resisting the taking away of their land and in the process CPM/state rule.

Are these accurate depictions? What are the factors that are missing from discussion? What's not? To what extent? These are the questions I'm pushing for consideration of in each instance and, consequently, in the overall.

This doesn't mean that gendered violence wasn't as important or more important than other factors in either incident or that Nandigram didn't involve religious difference or that Gujarat didn't involve class and neoliberalism or that these factors are somehow discrete in the real world, rather than woven together in society. But that also doesn't mean that the question of whether specific factors were involved and to what extent and how they related to each other shouldn't be the subject of what is basically handwaving.

Take a counterexample: If I said that either Gujarat or Nandigram was primarily motivated by homophobia (which is a problem in India), I would be laughed off the blog (and probably rightly so, though I wouldn't say that with confidence not knowing enough about either situation). So obviously different factors are setting the agenda for confrontation to a different extent and different people emphasize different ones in retelling the events.

And who, in practice, sets the agenda for the debate on “communalism” (BJP? RSS? VHP?)?

I'm asking whether or not the conversation is fundamentally reactive or whether it's used in some other way by the Powers That Be, and if so, what. And I'm sincere in saying I don't know and that I'm curious.

But that also doesn’t mean that the question of whether specific factors were involved and to what extent and how they related to each other shouldn’t be the subject of what is basically handwaving.

oops...that should have said "should be the subject of what is basically handwaving." as in we should not handwave away social analysis.

Are these accurate depictions? What are the factors that are missing from discussion? What’s not? To what extent? These are the questions I’m pushing for consideration of in each instance and, consequently, in the overall.

This doesn’t mean that gendered violence wasn’t as important or more important than other factors in either incident or that Nandigram didn’t involve religious difference or that Gujarat didn’t involve class and neoliberalism or that these factors are somehow discrete in the real world, rather than woven together in society. But that also doesn’t mean that the question of whether specific factors were involved and to what extent and how they related to each other shouldn’t be the subject of what is basically handwaving.

I agree, but to defend the analysis of nationalism to some degree--I'm wary of over emphasizing economic factors in cases like Gujarat. Ascribing the development or availability of such ideologies on economic relations, doesn't to me provide much useful explanation. Any two large social groups in a place like Gujarat are bound to be locked in a whole network of economic relations between and within them. The fact that cultural nationalisms are able to exploit those relations is interesting, but ultimately can only go so far in explaining the why and how. Thats another way of saying if the economic relations between/within Hindus and Muslims in Gujarat were significantly different, I'm not sure how qualitatively different the violence would have been. Obviously, I have no grand answers to the why and how...I can only at this point identify the spaces in which I doubt it will be found.

And who, in practice, sets the agenda for the debate on “communalism” (BJP? RSS? VHP?)?

Thats a good point, much of the discourse is highly reactive. On both sides actually...the history of the word "communalism" itself demonstrates that. Briefly (Reductively): If "communal" came into wide use a pejorative terms used by the Congress to describe the Muslim League, and is know used by the Congress to pejoratively describe the Hindu Right...this is a problem because it equates the demands of the Muslim League with the demands of Hindu right though they are radically different. "Communalism" is a terrible term because it totally obscures the power relations present in a relationship between two groups, it implicitly suggests that "communal" identities be dissolved into some larger diffuse notion of the "secular indian," opens up space for those working toward minority rights to be called "communal" (read an outlook message board to get a sense of this), and is generally unproductive and inaccurate. The confusion between the "Indian" and "Western" meaning of the world 'secular' and the general disarray and ideological inconsistency of secular politics in India is what allows people like Dilip to call people "pseudo-secular" and "chrislamo fascist" and all the other brilliant terms made up by Hindutvadis.

In my view, we need to be clear. The fight against "communalism" is not toward a day in which we all can look at each other as purely Indian...it is instead a fight toward minority rights. There is no reason that a distinct cultural/religious identity and the social and political expressions of that should be a disentitlement to basic rights, freedoms and protections.

When Hindus riot for stupid reasons, the police lathi-charge / arrest / fire live rounds at whoever they are rioting about.

And how did you arrive at that ? would you mind explaining ?

Husain is in exile, Tiwari is being hosted by the state government’s best gallery.

Hussain got world stage with his denigration of Hindu Gods. Hussain disguised his hatred as "art", while Tiwari, who has got a much smaller stage, is making a statement about people who blow up innocent people and property.

And what is the logic of Muslims in India rioting for something done by England or said by Pat Robertson ?

The fight against “communalism” is not toward a day in which we all can look at each other as purely Indian…it is instead a fight toward minority rights.

Weren't Pakistan and Bangla Desh created for the purpose of minority rights ? How much more do you guys want ?

I agree, but to defend the analysis of nationalism to some degree–I’m wary of over emphasizing economic factors in cases like Gujarat. Ascribing the development or availability of such ideologies on economic relations, doesn’t to me provide much useful explanation.

That's totally fair. I was only arguing (as a critic, not a creator :) against the overarching explanation that replaces specific analysis. To say that the violence in gujarat was produced by politicized religion isn't problematic to me (but then, i don't know shit about it that i haven't read or heard from others, so what does that say? :) It can't or, rather, shouldn't be, THE narrative through which all else is read.

Events in Gujarat five year ago manage to gain more traction in ptr-kind-of-spaces than, say, the pollution of groundwater by mn soda companies, let alone whatever the hell is happening in chattisgarh and madhya pradesh. And that raises some of the issues that you brought up about "communalism."

But then, this is a question of what's out there and what's not and to what extent--something i can't answer (but would one day be interested in being able to) and i admit i'm giving a very american "("why must everything be read through race even when it's not the most important factor!") reading to all this.

Desi Italiana:

Inspite of your anger and name calling, I still think you are a good gal, albeit a bit confused (in the ABCD sense). But that can change, and it must.

Now lets about your comments:

You said:

Are you fucking stupid? Really, do you have reading comprehension problems? I write about refugees IN PAKISTAN and you bring up Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir? And the fact that I’m not not talking about Hindus in Kashmir is indicative that I don’t care about that topic?

and further you said:

I NEVER spoke about religion in my post on Afghan refugees in Pakistan. So why the fuck are you saying that I am talking about Afghan Muslims? How do you know that those Afghan refugees didn’t include Hindus and Sikhs?

and you also say in another post:

Let’s not forget about the rest of the Afghanistani population- the 99% which isn’t Hindu or Sikh. Unlike the Hindus and Sikhs, they do not have a foreign government appealing on their behalf so that they can find a safe refuge in another country. They too, face innumerable hardships: bombings, starvation, poverty, and misery; things that they cannot easily escape.

Now lets figure out what you are saying. In the last quote, you said "Unlike Hindus and Sikhs (i.e the remaining who are Muslim) do not have a foreign government to appeal on their behalf...."

First, you claim, you make no mention of religion, but I see you separating the Muslims from Hindus and Sikhs. You also show a soft corner for the Afghan Muslims, while wiggling out of offering any support to the Afghan Hindus or Sikhs by saying that a foreign government (meaning India) is appealing for them. In fact, neither the Lefist press of India nor the Government has offered any help to them.

It is quite obvious that you are an advocate for Muslims more that Hindus or Sikhs. However, I am not surprised, as this is how the Liberal mind works. I have met many White folks who go out of their way to support Blacks at their (White) expense. ITS CALLED GUILT.. Liberalism (all lefist ideologies) are based on guilt.

Also, a person with your readership should know that there were few to none Hindu or Sikh refugees in Pakistan. So yes, you were talking about Afghan MUSLIM refugees only. Be honest.

...CONTINUED ON NEXT POST

CONTINUED FROM POST 39:

Desi Italiana:

My new name is going to be Ayesha Bibi. Do you like it? Then, I’m going to marry a Muslim and have 900 Muslim babies to overtake the 800 million plus Hindu population in India.

I think a conservative Islamic woman is better than a pseudo liberal "Hindu" woman, so it might be a good thing for you to convert. At least the Islamic woman is honest to herself, while the liberal is lying to herself.

And I don't care if you have a billion muslim babies. The thing I am fighting for is the right not to be bothered by others. Right now all the Lefties - from Liberals, Christians, Muslims, communists, socialists, etc. -- are after Hindus. All I want is to be left (no pun intended) in peace. Don't tell me what to do or try to convert me.

Furthermore, your logic is stupid. Didn’t you ask Vijay Prashad on this thread why he, as a self defined communist, was living in America? Apart from fact that this makes no sense (as if America was the embodiment of capitalism, and as such, anybody who lives in America is a capitalist) let me use your own illogical logic against you: what the fuck are you doing sitting on the East Coast of the US and at the same time talking shit about “Goras”, “Gora thinking”, and accusing people of being “slaves to the whites”?

Mr. Vijay Prashad, the Non-Hindu Marxist Communist, is a hypocrite with a hidden agenda. I am sure he knows a lot about the Marxist war going on in India and Nepal. Prakash Karat, the communist party leader, met with Maoist rebels, and Mr. Vijay Prashad, the Non-Hindu Marxist Communist, did not reply back to me when I had asked him that question.

Also, Vijay Prashad, the Non-Hindu Marxist Communist, is enjoying the fruits of capitalism while preaching against it. So why is he in the USA ? Why not China or Cuba ? Hypocrate.

Another point:

Mr. Vijay Prashad, the Non-Hindu Marxist communist, advises young American Hindus on how to be Hindus.

Imagine that !!! A non Hindu telling Hindus how to be Hindus

And about talking shit about Goras: Aren't you in the USA talking shit about Bush and the US Government role in world geo politics ? Well, I have the same freedom and rights. But I am not really talking shit about Goras, as much as the Indians who try to be Gora (i.e Gora giri). This blind imitation of Goras is what I am against.

Kauva chala Hans ki chaal
Aakhir bhoola apni chaal

(meaning crow tried to walk like a swan and forgot his own walk).

India kicked out the English
now Indians must kick out some of the silly English Ideas
And go back to their desi roots.

And, sure some Goras have some biases against INdia and Hindu religion, but we will educate them. Dont worry. Other than that, I do like goras for various other reasons, and I have learned a lot from them.

Om Shanti !!!!!

Dilip,

You are a pathetic, patronizing ass. And though your above comments weren't directed at me, they have made me extremely angry. I cannot begin to describe how insulting the phrase ABCD is, but you should know it is both painful and completely out of line. As an American-born Indian woman, I have had to navigate both my US and Indian identity and find a comfortable place to live-- all the while being seen as not american nor indian enough for either camp.

I don't know where you live or who you are, but you don't know the first thing about indian-americans. You may reply to this post with some long winded commentary about Your Views and Why We Aren't Hindu/Indian/non-Gora (another word I hate), but you should know that it has nothing but a negative impact here. I only just discovered this blog, but it means so much to me to find a (virtual) community of people who are interested in the same issues I am-- with the same background, who might somewhat understand me. Your constant barrage of deragotory comments (no matter how right you think you are) does nothing but shut that discussion down.

You probably think you have some sort of place here, but you do nothing but piss off people that would rather not talk to you. PLEASE stop posting, get your own blog, or try to understand the perspective of people whose background has made them the people they are with the opinions that they have. I didn't ask my parents to move to America from India and have me. But they did. And I am incredibly grateful, because it has given me the ability to look at both parts of our beautiful world and accept what I want to accept and refuse what I don't agree with. And that's what being bicultural is about. And indcidentally, that's what I believe this blog to be about too.

If you have a shred of sensitivity, you won't respond to this post, or other posts. Just leave well enough alone.

Angry and emotional,
Neetu

I have simmered down some, and want to clarify one point:

I have no right to tell anyone whether or not to post their thoughts. This blog is and should be democratic.

However, you should know that you very much need to dislodge your penchant for black and white thinking to instead see the grey that exists everywhere. I live trying to defy labels. I hope others do too.

Hey Neetu - I'm happy to be part of the virtual community interested in the same issues you are, but I'd prefer that the admissibility of 'ABCD' not be one of those issues. I find it strange that you the main point of objection you have with Dilip is his derogatory attitude about American desis. In the context of his exterminatory attitude towards other communities, getting indignant about his use of ABCD seems like a completely mis-assigned priority.

It makes me worry that we - this community - will ultimately fight harder for self-affirming niceties and reassurances than for the recognition and rectification of truly malignant and destructive prejudices.

I should add that Dilip's ability to quote Hindi dohas doesn't mean he's actually in a position to denigrate your knowledge or perspectives on India. Conviction is very easy to pass off as information; but he is very uninformed, apart from what he's getting from the Organizer. If you browse the website of an Indian newspaper every couple of days (not the TOI) you will quickly be in a position to talk down to him (which everyone else here does, a futile pursuit if there ever was one).

Raghu,

You are resorting to the same tricks you accuse me of. Only the Leftist media provides information and not others? I guess you get to be the judge.

If you have read my posts properly, I am fighting not against people, but some ideologies. After all something motivates people to act a certain way. Specifically, I am fighting against the Leftist who pounces on Hindus just for asserting their Hinduness. Today, being a Hindu is equated with Hindutva. This is Leftist Fundamentalism.

I mention once again Mr. Vijay Prashad, the non-Hindu, non religious Marxist Communist, thinks its quite OK for him to advice Young American Hindus (like Neetu and Desi Italiana) on how to be Hindus. No wonder Young Hindu Americans are likely to get confused.

Its very easy to appease the other, but can you stand up for the traditions of your forefathers ? Not yet...but I am fighting for it.

welcome, neetu--i hope you stick around!

much love,
dr. a

ha ha ha ha
xxx al aseudo secularists

Kashmir issue is something which every Indian and Pakistani is emotional about. Politicians from both Pakistan and India have used the Kashmir factor for their political goals. In Pakistan a true patriot is believed to be anyone who hates India and same is true with India also but in this case it is Pakistan to be hated.
I remember It was the month of January date was 20th and year 1990.I woke up at around 5.00a.m and so did my brother and my father. Our destination was tourist center, Srinagar. We left our home at 5.30a.m and that was the last time I saw my home. I could see the burning tyres and the smoke coming from burning tyres at every chowk. These burning tyres and bonfire was lit by the majority population of the valley and all night they had been shouting anti India and anti Hindu slogans and throwing stones on Kashmiri pundit houses. Somehow we reached Tourist center. We took a taxi and reached Jammu city at around 4p.m.I stayed at my fathers friends house for around one month and then we booked a flat on rent.
I remember Kashmir pundits gathering at different places and protesting on streets and roads of Jammu .Geeta bhawan was the center point were everyone used to meet. Then government announced registration of Kashmiri pundits and said that they will give some relief in cash and some few kgs of rice, wheat and quilts to kashmiri hindus and this process started at geeta bhawan.It was month of april and april is hot in jammu.Sun stroke was unheard in Kashmir and we did’nt even know what is hot weather and everyone was unprepared of scorching heat at least in first year of migration.
I remember it was late April and I was standing in a queue for my registration at geeta bhawan. In the long Queue I could see the faces with sweat, frustration and anger and suddenly one person fell down on ground due to heat. He was shifted immediately in the shadow and he looked totally exhausted. That was the first time when I saw someone collapsing due to heat.
I was staying at talab tillo area of Jammu. There is a canal of river chenab which flows along with akhnoor highway.The cold water of the canal was a relief to many kashmiris in the summer months and many kashmiris who used to live near to canal used to bath in the canal.I particularly enjoyed swimming in the canal.
Well barsaat was unheard in Kashmir.I had never seen humid conditions of barsaat.most of the kashmiris had never experienced that type of humid conditions. As one sweat a lot in barsaat. Skin infections are very high in barsaat. especially itching.
Mass exodus of Kashmiri panduts was not planned by any kashmiri pundit.90% of pundits had thought that they will come back to the valley as soon as the situation comes under control.But that never happened, and I don’t see that happen at least not in coming 5 years. Some say it was Jagmohan who was the brain behind the mass exodus. But that is not true.Common kashmiri pundit has lost any hope of returning back to valley.

.Common kashmiri hindu felt that Indian govt and people of India will react very strongly.But contrary govt. of India suppressed this news and mass exodus of Kashmiri pundits was a minor news in national newspapers.It was two column news in national newspapers and that too on 12th or 14 th page which was hardly noticeable. Majority population of India still don’t know what happened to kashmiri pundits?They don’t know we were forced by the Islamic thought and muslim terrorists to migrate to different parts of India!The population of kashmiri Pundits has been reduced to less than 9000 in Kashmir valley which was originally 4lakh..Still vast majority population of India may be up to 90% don’t know what has happened in Kashmir.Govt of India particularly congress said It is against the national interests of India to publisize the situation which forced us to migrate.But publicizing godra incident is in favour of India! I don’t know how can Kashmiri pundit be against National intrest of India.If kashmiri pundits had shouted “Pakistan zindabaad” instead of “bharat mata ki jai!”then we would be still living in Kashmir
Kashmiri hindus were forced to migrate to different parts of India seventeen years ago by the Muslim terrorists and Muslims of Kashmir. In These seventeen years every Kashmir Hindu must have thought at least once daily about their birth place..Kashmiri pundits were forced to leave Kashmir because we opted to say “Bharat Mata ki jai” rather than Pakistan zindabad.Thousands of Kashmiri pundits were selectively targeted by Muslim jehadis and women were raped and brutally killed by Islamic terrorists and the govt. at center under the leadership of V.P.Singh and home minister Mufti Mohammed sayyed remained as mute spectators. Mufti sayyed is an sworn enemy of Hindus and especially kashmiri pandits.He has never said even once“jai hind” while being chief minister of J&K.Congress also maintained silence as they didn’t wanted to loose their Vote bank of Muslims. What a joke congress is in power in J&K with the help of anti-national,anti-hindu PDP!

Under present UPA Govt. India is heading towards nowhere, because UPA does not have any True leader. I feel we have two parallel govt’s at present in center, one is run by Congress and other by left and this right and left directionless, pro-Muslim, pro-Christian and anti- Hindu govt. is only harming the majority population of India. Congress and left parties were known to be sworn enemies of each other. Communists got power in West-Bengal and Kerala because of congress’s dictatorship and all these years they were after the lives of each other. Hindutva wave proved too powerful for them to handle and only to keep off pro-Hindu govt. from power in center they joined hands together. How can we trust left parties as it is a known fact that they are more pro-Chinese than Indians!

I personally feel that so called regional parties who are playing on casteism and minority vote bank politics are biggest threat to the integrity of India. Congress is doing every effort to please Muslims where as it is an established and almost universal truth that every Muslim may not be a terrorist but every terrorist is a Muslim.

India is the largest Hindu populated country of the world and yet Hindus are not getting what they should get, as the present govt. is more inclined to minorities for their vote bank politics. Since govt. is spending huge sums of money to minorities and neglecting vast majority especially in far flung areas and tribal areas. the long regime of congress has been unable to set up even basic facilities like healthcare ,education and employment in these under developed areas and thus these areas are prone to malicious ,anti-national sympathetic wave created by Christian missionaries and these missionaries are playing their dirty game of conversion.

So called secular parties and communists parties have literally captured media, whether print, Radio or TV. And they are corrupting the youngsters of India. I am almost sure that all leading news channels are used by the so called secular political parties and communists. Even political parties are using media to do sting operations and expose its rivals. Congress has particularly used very efficiently Tehelka. They did sting operation in 2001 against BJP. They also used tehelka for BSP and SP. Recently Tehelka did sting operation in Gujrat against BJP(infamous godhra incident). Why have'nt tehelka done even a single sting operation against congress? why did'nt tehelka expose those responsible for killing of thousands of sikhs in 1984?and killing of thousands of kashmiri pundits in 1990.

In kashmir alone thousands of kashmiri pundits were murdered .Till date no investigation has been done by any of the governments and not even a single person has been punished by any government.It is not not that Indian agencies don't know the culprits but arresting a muslim for killing a hindu in India is not secular. India is the most seudo-secular country in the world.

The need for Hindus to unite is more than ever. All Hindus, whether Kashmiri pundits or other Hindus who have been forced to migrate from their respective natives by Muslim terrorists .The biggest problem which I can see is that Hindus are not united whether in J&K or in rest of India. Although we all are facing same problem and if we get united we can definitely change our destinies and destiny of our country Kashmir had a very rich secular, peaceful and Tolerant culture in the past. emperor Ashoka is often credited with having founded the city of Srinagar. Kashmir was once a Buddhist seat of learning, perhaps with the "Sarvastivada" school dominating. East and Central Asian Buddhist monks are recorded as having visited the kingdom. After the advent of Islam into Kashmir a traditional centre of Buddhist and Hindu religions conversion of Hindus to Islam has resulted in numerically significant population of the Kashmiri Muslims being descendents of Hindus .
manish

Manish, thanks for your long comment:

1) Honestly and truly, I'm sorry for your personal loss(es).
2) Why do you support Hindutva as the only way of arguing for your rights? I'm happy to agree with you that Congress massacred Sikhs (and others) and was responsible for the riots in 1980s after the assassination of I. Gandhi, that most political parties today are willing to sell out the poor and even shoot them in order to get done what they want to get done in terms of industrial policy, that people in the Northeast and Kashmir have to live tortured lives because of the centre's policies, etc.

So will you agree with me that there are better ways of fighting for people's rights and livelihoods--whether they're Hindus in Bangladesh or Muslims in Gujarat or farmers in West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh? Even if you want to speak in the language of Hinduism to defend human rights, people's rights, there are better role models and spokespeople than LK Advani and his cohorts in BJP, RSS, VHP, and the rest of the alphabet soup?