Cannot attend physically but will be there in spirit :)

Will definitely be there...Anybody know what kind of legal representation he has at the moment?

Rohan:

Why are you so indignant about being in a nudist camp??? MAybe you should go with Dr. Anonymous!!!

I swear you are obsessed with nudity. Since you've brought that up over and over again, I'm impelled to say that you have written comments that have almost nothing to do with the subject at hand.

You yourself have just prove what a banal HYPOCRITE you are. It’s OK with you,if someone paints Jesus or Brahma, not only nude but in obscene postures,but when it comes to you in the buff why did you get so angry?!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND A DOUBLE FACED INDIVIDUAL!!!!

If this were true, I would have banned your ass and deleted your spam comments on this thread long ago.

Hey Desi Italiana. What proof do you possess that there was no objectionable content involved.??

We've been asking you that, my friend, since you are taking so much of an issue with this. But like you said, let's put aside the actual contents of what the pieces are about.

I actually haven't seen the images myself, but I am also not slinging rocks at a vague target. You're doing that, which is why Aatish asked whether you've seen the pieces or not. It's like asking people who are vehemently against Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses if they've read the damn book or not.

Also , Desi Italiana, are u always as ambiguous as your paradoxical name?

,I previously said,””Why didn’t Chandra Mohan paint his mother and his sister naked instead of Jesus or Brahma? Why couldn’t that be inspiring enough?”

Going by your notions of morals and ethics, I might be inspired to paint yours!!!

Stupid question. Maybe because his mother and sister are actual living human beings that he interacts with on a daily basis?

But even if a painter depicts someone he knows in real life, what the hell do you care? Why are you so personally offended with the entire episode? As long as it's not someone who comes into your house and you feel like they are disrespecting you and insulting you personally. Unless you think India is "your house"....

Re: painting my image: cheap shot, by the way, but most of your comments here have been rants anyway with little actual argument.

Also , Desi Italiana, are u always as ambiguous as your paradoxical name?

I previously said,””Why didn’t Chandra Mohan paint his mother and his sister naked instead of Jesus or Brahma? Why couldn’t that be inspiring enough?”

Going by your notions of morals and ethics, I might be inspired to paint yours!!!

Hey Desi Italiana. What proof do you possess that there was no objectionable content involved.??

Now Aatish. You should watch the news more instead of ruminating your views in the void. The authorities sealed these paintings in a room. Thats why there was no actual footage of them. And I think they did a very sensible thing. Look whats happening in Punjab dude.And, what are you trying to say, this never happened, that NDTV.com got taken for a ride, that people are jobless in Gujarat???? Hell, even his mentor proved there was objectionable content by saying that art is imaginative and it should not be bounded by morals. So, Mr. know it all,a personal advice,please dont try working in the reporting media anytime. Trust me.
Also.......what r u pissed at? That my argument wasn't strong enough or that the Hindu goddesses are nude? Which I think is highly inaccurate. Temples at their pheriphery display. not always, god's and goddesses. They are just sculpture relevant to the existing era sometimes depicting slaves in kings palaces..............OR WHATEVA MAN!!! I'll be aghast to find out that a great religion like Hinduism ever depicted a Sita or a Saraswati or a Durga in the buff????? (I am not a Hindu but my I respect the faith people hold towards it)So....buddy, another tipper, dont ever cross paths with a fanatical RSS and yourself with a headfull of crackbrained ideas. You'll never say anything again!!!;-)
Also, I follow Christianity and am proud to say that I know alot of its theology, history and doctrines. There's been never any cases of expressed nudity in our religion. Infact to be naked in public is a shame and a sign of condemnation in Christianity. What gave Chandra Mohan to make fun of Jesus and the Holy Cross? This was reported and confirmed by NDTV that Jesus Christ was also targeted:-

"Meanwhile, a group of Christian priests from different denominations have joined the protests with the VHP in Baroda.

They have filed an affidavit in a local court alleging that art student Chandra Mohan has hurt their religious sentiments by using the symbolism of the cross in sexually explicit images.

''This is hurtful to the christian religious sentiment,'' said Rev Emmanuel Kant.

Jain said the student's depiction of Hindu Gods and Goddesses offended religious sentiments."
C&P form NDTV.com

So......buddy. Just one or two opinions from pseudo westeners like you cant bring down mighty religious beliefs.

RPM's baseless ranting argument in a nutshell:

Now,for starters, lets not get into whether these pictures are objectionable or not.

never expect the people to stay quiet after they have been insulted

Dont you fucking think for a second that the people would respect the boundaries of this art haven while you demigods of the brush go around insulting us.

Theodor Roosevelt once said,”Speak softly and carry a big stick”.

Wow, I'm blown away by your concrete, well thought out, articulate, thought provoking, and rational argument despite the fact that you don't want to get into whether those pictures were objectionable or not. Now that I've read this, I TOTALLY agree that people should paint whatever "national sentiments" dictate; anything short of that, they should be locked up for life. Maybe you should apply for the position at the Moral Police, RPM. I'm sure you'll use your big stick to beat people into respecting HinduStan.

Also, why are you so insulted when you dont even know the precise or even vague contents of the painting?

You dont want to get into the details of whether the painting was objectionable or not because you would rather take the VHP's word for it. If you think that being placed in Gujarati jail is proof enough of guilt, then you have problems. Perhaps you should read a little bit about the post-2002 state of justice in Gujarat.

Why are we blaming the authorities? Actually, its not the authorities who came to arrest Chandramohan, it was the VHP who came to beat him up, and it was the VHP who called the police to arrest him. Somehow I doubt the rest of Gujarat or great Hindu masses would have had any idea about this exhibition had it not been for the VHP, i.e., the self-appointed defenders of "Hindu Culture." Last time I checked, the VHP was neither an 'authority' nor an official arm of the state (though it seems that they are, at least in Gujarat). Last time i checked, the very legal provisions you quoted were designed with the intention to prevent the incitement of communal violence, e.g., passing out trishuls and providing financial incentive to kill Muslims, i.e., well documented activities of the VHP.

Actually the paintings were not the only things sealed, the entire archive of the university was sealed, presumably to present students from repeating the protest exhibition they staged. This exhibition tried to demonstrate the long history of painting the goddess in the nude present in Indian art, a history that far predates the founding of the Sangh in 1925.

Hey Vivek?? Dont tell me you've lost your marbles and trying to tell me that a university, a WHOLE GODDAMM UNIVERSITY, holds an art exibition, with objectionable frescoes, and you expected the news not to sneak out?????!!!! Now,for starters, lets not get into whether these pictures are objectionable or not. I think that thats been already proved on national television and with Chandra Mohan in jail. Hell! His mentor ran into hiding also like a coward. So.....no need to get intellectual here buddy. Secondly,you've not only missed the point I am trying to make but fail to enunciate one yourself. I never stated that he was intentionally trying to create enmity or antagonize any section of society. What he tried to do was to get famous the MF Hussain way (he definately has lost his marbles man!!!)which not only was pathetically disgusting and obnoxious but hoplessly foolish also. What else do you expect man.......poor rural folk from some podunk town delusional that he's the next art glitaretti, absolutely ignorant of the national and religious sentiments held towards "OBJECTS OF WORSHIP" (can u fanthom that man!!!)by the mass populace.Sadly it just backfired and the shit hit the fan right under his empty head.Thirdly,never expect the people to stay quiet after they have been insulted (LOL that u think this whole affair to be held under wraps and the people not to know). Why are we blaming the authorities for interferring instead of commending them of doing their job.Dont you fucking think for a second that the people would respect the boundaries of this art haven while you demigods of the brush go around insulting us.And in my opinion,after this jackass and his crackbrained guru UNKNOWINGLY ALMOST STARTED A RIOT, it was the authorities and Mr. Niraj Jain who prevented a riot by sealing the objectionable paintings in a room and not letting it get out. Cant u see whats happening in Punjab right now man?
Theodor Roosevelt once said,"Speak softly and carry a big stick".

A god is a god and art does not give you the right to potray him in any way you like. Why didn’t Chandra Mohan paint his mother and his sister naked instead of Jesus or Brahma? Why couldn’t that be inspiring enough?

Yeah, yeah yeah. Sacredness. So in your opinion, he insulted the laws of moralism and sanctity. Big deal. Just like you think he didn't have the right to represent "your God" (which is interesting-- I didn't know religious images were the property or ownership of another person and/or group), you obviously don't have the right to shut someone down just because he/she offends what you think is "right" or "wrong" in terms of art. Who made people like that the moral police?

Give a better argument, please.

We need to learn form the Islamists here, for their commendable outrage when their prophet was caricatured. We need to follow in their footsteps.

People who protested that weren't "Islamists", but many of them were ordinary people. And either way, quit saying "we" (presumably Hindus) need to follow in "their" (Muslims) steps. Neither group is a coherent monolithic entity that acts in uniformity, as much as you'd like to think.

Is this a joke? Have you seen any of the art in question? If you have, please let me know where i too can view this highly objectionable material, and while youre at it, alert the Indian press, who havent seen the paintings either.

Have you actually been to a temple constructed before the 19th century? If you had, you might have noticed that the goddesses are nude. There is endless historical precedence to support the worship and depiction of goddesses in the nude. But thats not really the point, and im pissed off to have to even resort to arguing along this line.

Does Hindutva have any metaphysical content beyond a belief in reincarnation and a slavish adherence to the rituals of a Hinduism formed only in the 19th century? No. That is why it can be used to oppose almost anything.

I had sent my earlier blog to the Vice Chancellor of MSU, and what do I get in response, a stock standard reply prepared for one and sundry (see below).

A Brief Report on the Recent Incidences At the MSU, Baroda
09May 2007 – 11 May 2007
The Maharaja Sayajirao Universiy of Baroda is amongst the top Universities in the country with very high global repute. The Faculty of Fine Arts is amongst its very best Faculties and is one of the top ranking institutions world-wide in the field of Fine Arts.
On 9 May 2007, the citizens of Vadodara lodged their strong protest at the Faculty of Fine Arts, of the Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda. The protest was against an exhibition displaying a number of artworks deeply hurting the sentiments of Faith and decency of the society at large.
It is noteworthy that during his telephonic conversation with the Vice-Chancellor over this incidence of protest, the then in-charge Dean Professor S. K. Panniker (who is currently suspended from the University Services) also termed these works of art as “objectionable”.
The protest was verbal and peaceful. The citizens had come to the Faculty of Fine Arts having read a news item in the Times of India dated 07 May 2007 and Gujarati daily Sandes dated 09 May 2007. These news items mentioned that the Works of Art created by the students of the Faculty as a part of their Annual Examination were open for public display on the 9th May 2007. Such public display has been a tradition. In fact, one of the teachers of the Faculty had sent messages through SMS inviting people to the display at the Faculty of Fine Arts. Thus, the claim in the media that the display was not open for public is untrue.
These citizens noticed that some of the works of Art displayed at the Faculty were highly deplorable.
One of the so-called work of Art was a huge Christian Cross where Lord Jesus Christ was shown with his penis out on the Cross, his palms and feet hanging from the two sides and the bottom of the Cross, respectively. Semen was shown as dropping out of his penis into a real toilet commode placed beneath the Cross. The toilet contained fishes.
Another very large sized painting showed a woman in nude posture. A baby was shown as attempting to come out of the vagina of the women. The picture depicted the women trying to attack the baby with a Trishul. The painting had the words “DURGA MATA” written at the bottom.
Similarly Lord Shiva and Lord Visnhu were also depicted in a highly derogatory manner in other so-called works of Art.
The media had already arrived by this time and were witnessing and recording / photographing the events that followed.
When the group of citizens led by Mr. Niraj Jain, as per his letter, protested and requested the student who had created these so-called works of Art to remove these objectionable works of Art from public display, the student refused to do so. Again the group of citizens requested Professor Panniker, the then in-charge Dean of the Faculty to intervene and get those objectionable works of art removed from public display. Professor Panniker refused to do so.
The protest was entirely peaceful and verbal. No damage was caused to the property of the University. No injury whatsoever was caused to any person.
On the request of the then in-charge Dean, the University officials arranged for police reinforcement with a request to provide necessary protection. The police promptly arrived at the venue. After a very long and consistent persuasion, those objectionable works of art were removed and placed in a room, which was locked and sealed by the police on the basis of a complaint filed by Mr. Niraj Jain and in concurrence with the provision of relevant Law. None of the so-called works of art was damaged in any manner.
On the basis of a police complaint filed by Shri Niraj Jain in his individual capacity as a citizen, the student – Mr. Chandra Mohan, who had created those objectionable works of Art was arrested by police under relevant legal provisions. The University authorities deputed an official to provide all the possible help to the student.
Subsequently, the University received a high number of representations and memoranda from several organizations, groups, individuals of high repute and common people from a cross section of society strongly urging the University officials to intervene and disallow the exhibition of such works of art that deeply hurt and offend the sentiments of Faith of various communities.
Thus, with a view to respect the sentiments of Faith of very large communities, as well as honoring the University’s social sensitivity and responsibility, the University officials including the Pro-Vice Chancellor and the Vice-Chancellor requested Professor S. K. Panniker, the then in-charge Dean of the Faculty several times to wind-up the exhibition.
Since the exhibition had already hurt the sentiments of Faith of very large societies, the then in-charge Dean of the Faculty was also requested to issue a statement expressing at least regret and apology over such unintentional consequence of the exhibition. During such meetings of the Pro-Vice-Chancellor and the Vice Chancellor with Professor Panniker, the then in-charge Dean, his colleagues were also present.
The then Faculty in-charge Dean, unfortunately, did not heed these requests. Regrettably, adding fuel to the fire, he made such offending public statements, which further hurt and flared up the common citizens’ feelings demanding strong action. In one such statements printed by the media, for instance, Professor Panniker, the then in-charge Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, is quoted as saying that the Faculty of Fine Arts is like his personal bedroom and therefore, he is free to do whatever he desires there! Thus, the protest of the citizens of the city grew manifolds. Consequently, there was a huge public outcry from a cross section of society including the students of the University, demanding strong action in the matter.
As if this was not enough, in sheer defiance of the University officials requests and even executive orders, on 11th May 2007, once again, the then in-charge Dean, organized an exhibition in the evening displaying nude paintings in the name of and Indian culture!
Since this unwarranted act of the then in-charge Dean could have sparked large-scale social disharmony and caused disruption, the University Authority deputed two Deputy Registrars and one Assistant Registrar for requesting the in-charge Dean Prof. Panniker, for not organizing the said exhibition. When these officials reached the Faculty and spoke to the then in-charge Dean, he refused point blank to stop the display and reacted that he was not required to take permission of anybody including University Authority for doing anything in the Faculty.
Upon this, the Authority deputed Registrar-in-charge with a written order directing the in-charge Dean to close the display. After acknowledging the letter of the Registrar-in-charge after a lot of dilly-dallying, Prof. Panniker adamantly continued on his stand of not closing the display and said he would keep the display open throughout the night and disobey the University authority’s lawful orders.
In spite of such disobedient behaviour of the then in-charge Dean, the Pro-Vice-Chancellor of the University, Professor S. M. Joshi, along with the Senate and Syndicate members and leading citizens of the city went personally to the Faculty premises and repeatedly requested the in-charge Dean to close the display. Even then, the then in-charge Dean remained adamant and refused to heed the requests / orders of the Pro-Vice-Chancellor.
The Faculty of Fine Arts is an integral part of the prestigious The Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda, known for its substantial contribution in placing Gujarat & Baroda on international cultural scene, and as such cannot be left solely on the whims & wishes of any one individual.
In the event of the adamant refusal of the then in-charge Dean to heed the repeated requests from the University officials and his blatant refusal to obey lawful orders of the University officials and that too in such grave matter of hurting the sentiments of decency and societal harmony, the University had no other option but to suspend the in-charge Dean, Prof. S. K. Panniker from the University services for three months with immediate effect under the rules of the University.
The university authority has constituted a committee headed by Professor Syed Maswood, Dean Faculty of Law, with clear terms of reference for investigating entire matter in detail, identify all person/s responsible for this incidence, and recommend appropriate action under rules of the University.
The Chancellor of the University, Her Excellency Dr. Mrunalini Devi Puar, has publicly condemned such exhibition depicting divine personalities in derogatory manner.
In addition to a very large number of social organizations and common people, the leading citizens including Maharaja Ranjitsingh Gaekwad, Padmashri Sitanshu Mehta, Renowned Painter Shri Gulam Mohmmed Sheikh, Professor Dhruv Mistry, renowned Sculptor, Noted Poet Madhav Ramanuj and several distinguished personalities have issued public statements condemning the exhibition of objectionable works of Art that caused deep hurt to the sentiments of Faith of a very large society.
Steps Taken to Restore Normalcy
01. The Security, particularly in the Faculty of Fine Arts, has been enhanced right from 09 May 2007. The Security personnel are ensuring that only those students and Members of the University fraternity are allowed entry inside the Faculty Campus who hold valid identity card or authentic identity document. Due care is also taken not to put genuine visitors to any inconvenience. The campus is totally peaceful.
02. The Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, Professor Deepak Kannal is on leave and is currently in the U.S.A. on an academic assignment. He has been requested to pre-pone his return to India and is likely to resume his duties at the earliest possible.
03. Since during the absence of the regular Dean, none of the senior members of the Faculty was willing to take the charge of the Faculty, Professor G. C. Maheshwari, Dean Fculty of Management Studies has been appointed as the Officer on Special Duty in-charge of the Faculty of Fine Arts till the Dean Professor Deepak Kannal resumes his duties.
04. The results of the examinations of the Department of Museology, one of the six departments of the Faculty of Fine Arts, is declared. All the possible steps are being taken as to the conduct of the examination and the declaration of the results at the earliest possible.
05. A committee of the following members is constituted on 12 May 2007 to investigate about:
the incidence that occurred in the Faculty of Fine Arts on 09 May 2007 and subsequent developments related to it, and
the role, conduct and behaviour of Professor S. K. Panikkar, the then in-charge Dean, Faculty of Fine Arts with regard to the above referred incidence and frame charges against him.
01. Professor Syed Maswood, Dean, Faculty of Law, Convener
02. Dr. Prakash Shah, (M.D.), Syndicate Member, Member
03. Shri Mukundbhai Shah, Syndicate Member Member
04. Advocate Shri Rajendra Trivedi, Senate Member Member
The Convener is authorized to co-opt any other member(s) or invite artists for consultation.
The Committee is requested to submit its report at the earliest possible.
The Terms of Reference of the Committee will be as follows:
To ascertain the facts and evidences about the incidence that occurred in the Faculty of Fine Arts on 09 May 2007 and subsequent developments related to it.
To examine the role, conduct and behaviour of Professor S. K. Panikker, In-Charge Dean, Faculty of Fine Arts with regard to the above referred incidence.
To identify person(s) responsible for the incidence and subsequent developments related to it, and recommend appropriate action(s) with regard to those responsible.

The issue is of blatant disregard of the sanctity of a university and the ability of the saffron brigade to waltz in anywhere waving the 'Hindutva' flag. What gives these people the right to act as the moral police? Has the State Government given them extraordinary powers, or are they the self proclaimed saviours of the society? There is an increasing concern that we might be heading towards a state of social anarchy akin to Afghanistan, where religious fanaticism obliterated common decency, freedom and any form of expression. What is the difference between the Taleban and the saffron brigade? Nothing is the plain answer. Why do the saffron brigade then instigate racial violence? A case of dichotomous philosophy maybe!!!!

It is a pity to see young minds being polluted by such garbage, instead of chanelling their energies in abosrbing knowledge and bettering themselves. We need bright young minds to fuel not only Gujarat's growth, but that of the nation.

Why are you singling me out in all of your comments? And when you address me, why do you keep invoking nudity, proposing to paint my picture naked, and so on?

Don’t you think it’s ironic that you are arguing about the presumed sanctities of Hindu goddesses and how they shouldn’t be “disrespected” by being painted nude and so on, yet you find nothing wrong with using the same images that you find so offensive to respond to a female blogger?

OK, Desi Italiana. First thing, It is only now that I learnt that you are a female. I have nothing aganist women had welcome the fact that we have a female blogger expressing her views.
What I said was,"

Why didn’t Chandra Mohan paint his mother and his sister naked instead of Jesus or Brahma? Why couldn’t that be inspiring enough?”

Going by your notions of morals and ethics, I might be inspired to paint yours!!!

Secondly, when I said 'paint yours' I never reffered to you ( you aren't exactly Kate Winslet, I'm sure!!). What I meant was,since Chandra Mohan didn't think of painting his parents nude,going by your express views on advocating nuditity, I might be inspired to paint yours i.e. your parents!!! (Messy enough???). And by your mis-interpretation I got exactly what I wanted from you.
Dont bounce back what I said to you.You yourself have just prove what a banal HYPOCRITE you are. It's OK with you,if someone paints Jesus or Brahma, not only nude but in obscene postures,but when it comes to you in the buff why did you get so angry?!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AND A DOUBLE FACED INDIVIDUAL!!!!
I swear that I have no intent of painting or viewing anyone naked. I respect you and your parents and their rights to privacy, but have used strong statements to make my point.

Why are you so indignant about being in a nudist camp??? MAybe you should go with Dr. Anonymous!!!

You know what your problem is.....its the hypocricy of your search.

Here are the description of paintings of this artists ...

A large cross depicting Christ with his penis hanging out, semen dripping from it into a commode.

A nude woman with a baby attempting to push its way out of her vagina. The caption below the painting reads: "Durga Mata".

Oh, you're both the same person. Righto.

Please explain to me, one of you, how exactly Chandra Mohan, through his art - which was on display in an exhibition NOT open to the public - promoted enmity between different groups. Which group was he inciting to violence against which? Did he start a riot? Would there have been any sort of law & order problem whatsoever if the authorities hadn't interfered?

Look carefully at the intent of the law and then at your feet, and you'll see there's no ground beneath them.

I think Desi Italiana is writing these absurd, impractical and baseless ideas from some nudist camp!!!!!
Where did u read this from? Ha Ha HA HA HA!!!
Listen.......you can go prancing about naked wherever you like, I dont CARE!!! I'm not getting into wether nudism should be legalized or not. And without understanding any scriptural versus plz dont play the scholar.
And regarding wether there was really any objectionable content, all I got to say was that Chandra Mohan is no blue blooded prince that an entire state as well as a whole news channel would like to go aganist him in revenge. Stop pussyfooting and arguing without vague points.
Go find something concrete!!!

Agreed that the BJP and RSS broke the Babri masjid. It sucks!!!
Agreed that Graham Staines was burnt. Unforgivable!!

But Chandar Mohan is not excused of the motif's he has designed.
Art has got to be decent, especially in religious overtones. Who the hell wants his imagination?? You can clearly see how desperate he is to be a MF Hussain. Quick way to be famous huh? Imagination cannot be in contravention of IPC section 153 (promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence language etc.) and 114 (abettor present when offence is committed).
The IPC was not imagined. It is there for a purpose.
Pity he hasn't been beaten to a pulp as yet. Close down this academy and burn him and his non-chalant "Shivji'ignoramus'Panickkar" at the stake.
Way to go Mr. Niraj Jain!!!! Nice work VHP!!!
We need to learn form the Islamists here, for their commendable outrage when their prophet was caricatured. We need to follow in their footsteps.
Meneka Gandhi - go find real work with your cows and buffaloes. Seems u are useless after u got kicked out.

SHAME ON THIS KIND OF ART!!!! THIS IS NOT ART BUT A FART!!!

I think Desi Italiana is writing these absurd, impractical and baseless ideas from some nudist camp!!!!!

I have been hearing so many people supporting Chandra Mohan and the Lalita Art Academy in Gujrat. Though I am aganist saffronization and the Gunda attitude of the BJP and RSS I just wnted to tell all the sympathizers of this institution and the academy to "SHUT THE HELL UP".
What is wrong with you people? Just by stating that these images were not supposed to hurt sentiments doesn't exonerate thise so called Artisans of our Culture. A god is a god and art does not give you the right to potray him in any way you like. Why didn't Chandra Mohan paint his mother and his sister naked instead of Jesus or Brahma? Why couldn't that be inspiring enough?
This is a legal case and I am happy with him being arrested. I hope he is in jail for the rest of his life.

Just like you think he didn’t have the right to represent “your God” (which is interesting– I didn’t know religious images were the property or ownership of another person and/or group), you obviously don’t have the right to shut someone down just because he/she offends what you think is “right” or “wrong” in terms of art.

You’re free to criticize, but I don’t see how you’re free to lock someone up because they wrote or painted something you don’t like. That is very arbitrary, subject to a gross interpretation, and frankly, kind of fascist.

Desi:
The problem with people like these is that that they have not and will propably never fathom the profundity of the meaning of "Believing ,worshiping, trusting and following a God whom u cherish. The awe and the glory of a religious leader, which leads people to estatic levels of worship can never be understood by pseudo-westeners characterized by a kind of neo-modernism seeped in selfish paganism. Chandra Mohan and his guru have hurt the people's deepest and most precious beliefs,essential to one's belief system. These so called liberals are nothing but a sham because they preach only what they belief and expect the world to follow as if everyone is wrong. Where else can you find such an example like this anti-religious blog called PTR!!!! They mention that he was arrested under IPC 153 which perfectly matches his offences and they then rally aganist this by divulging into abstract philosiphies as "whether what he painted constitutes indecency", "God is not your property blah.." , "it was not open to public" etc. Of course he incited people, to riot!!!! Since ages people have fought over religion. How one section looked down or insulted anothers God. How during independence the Muslims cut cows and threw them in temples while the Hindus hit back with pigs on mosques along with rampant bloodshed. There are numerous examples. When religion and belifs systems are incendiary topics that can lead to mass distrubances, thats the whole point of having an IPC 153 but the government of India. And obscure lateral thinking of a few neo-modernists cant be taken as the answer aganist the whole national view.
The fascist is this blog site that says, "Oh........you hold this God sacred??? Just a second man........I'm painting him obscene and.......don't you dare oppose me or I'll start giving everyone the benefit of my indispensible wisdom".
Paint anyone(human being) in anyway........I'll by your philosophy but....a God whom I hold sacred???? Never!!!!!
And yes, my God belongs to me and is mine. And I'll never believe he can belong to people like you.

Here is the link to article which describes the whole controversy from "non-anti-liberal-elitist" perspective http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_...

Also, I follow Christianity and am proud to say that I know alot of its theology, history and doctrines. There’s been never any cases of expressed nudity in our religion. Infact to be naked in public is a shame and a sign of condemnation in Christianity.

Here. Read this.

There is also a religious element to nudity in Christianity. In the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve are ashamed of themselves after eating the forbidden fruit. They realize they are naked and fashion clothes for themselves, and if what the Bible says is true, then this is when the garment oppression of the body began. If people start prancing around naked again, then they could become closer to God. It would be like going back to a time before sin, and humanity would have an opportunity to start over.

:O

You can also try this, or this, or even the last pope who wasn't a member of Hitler Youth.

See, religious traditions are diverse! So aren't you potentially inciting these people by disparaging their religious views?

Don't get locked up!

THE DEATH THROES OF MSU?

Once a reputed centre of tertiary education with countless number of alumni from all faculties strewn across the world, is now a pariah. It is on the verge of being disowned not only by the UGC, but shunned by past students and teachers who are shocked and shamed at the latest debacle unfolding globally, unfortunately for university administrators, across the internet. It is bad enough to witness the academic demise of one’s alma mater across the last two decades, but watching political fanaticism mocking the very tenets of democracy, of which all Indians are supposedly proud of, is positively blood curdling.

The university is an institution, which needs to be properly administered and protected by those empowered to do so, including the Vice Chancellor, Syndicate/Senate Members, etc. Instead we are witnessing a debacle where the highest authority turns on his institute, sanctioning the violation of free expression and education on the flimsy excuse of immorality, that too in a land steeped and proud of its heritage such as Khajurao, Kama Sutra and the likes. Vibrant Gujarat indeed!!! The Mahatma and Sardar Patel would most certainly cringe wherever they in their heavenly abodes. The question begs to be asked whether the institute should shelter and tolerate these people. Therein lies the root of evil that has been plaguing MSU over the last few decades. Instead of a focus on academic excellence, mediocrity in all spheres has ruled the roost. Academic excellence dipped, national grants disappeared, dependence on the state government increased, thus allowing any ruling party to exert extraordinary influence on the university’s governance, including the appointment of vice chancellors of their choice, irrespective of their credentials and standing, and most importantly their ability to enhance the organisation’s stature. We have a situation where syndicate/senate members are either political stooges or have been muzzled to rubber-stamp critical decisions that could undermine the university’s credibility and standing. There used to be a time when academic luminaries were syndicate/senate members, but not any more, as political inclination is a preferable prerequisite.

More disturbing is the rise in religious political fanaticism in what should be the tranquil surroundings of a flourishing university. Ishwar, Allah, Ram, does it really matter where education is concerned. One suspects that there is more to just immorality than meets the eye about the current fracas.

Students, teachers, deans of faculties, syndicate/senate members, the PVC and VC are all party for the above debacle which represents some of the murkiest depths an educational organization can dip to. MSU is now a laughing stock. One used to take pride in being a MSU degree holder. Not any more, thanks to a crescendo of mediocrity, breeding acceptance of all that is anathema to true democracy, freedom of expression and education. The manner in which this incident has unfolded reminds us of the Taleban in Afghanistan. Are we fostering and encouraging our own “talebans’ who run amuck protecting the society’s ‘morals’, while flagrantly thumbing their noses at fundamental societal rights and law? If this is so, are we encouraging a ‘superior race’ (shades of Nazism) who are irreproachable and not answerable to common law and societal norms.

Citizens of Baroda, students and teachers of MSU, show some spine and courage and stand up for all that is fair, truthful, legal and most importantly, what is necessary to reverse this downward vortex of destruction the organization is speeding through. March through the streets, express your feelings to the VC, syndicate/senate members, harangue the State Education Minister and Chief Minister, clog the internet and daily press. Remember, state elections are approaching and in 1974, MSU students were at the forefront of overthrowing the then state government. We are a proud state and have been prosperous too, but this needs to be bolstered by a robust educational system. While MSU is in the news, other universities in Gujarat will certainly have their own horror stories to tell. Mediocrity is like a delicate exotic fruit, one does pay dearly for scarcity. Why should Gujarat put up with mediocrity, as it breeds all sorts of evils.

RSM:

I think Desi Italiana is writing these absurd, impractical and baseless ideas from some nudist camp!!!!!
Where did u read this from? Ha Ha HA HA HA!!!
Listen…….you can go prancing about naked wherever you like, I dont CARE!!! I’m not getting into wether nudism should be legalized or not. And without understanding any scriptural versus plz dont play the scholar.
And regarding wether there was really any objectionable content, all I got to say was that Chandra Mohan is no blue blooded prince that an entire state as well as a whole news channel would like to go aganist him in revenge. Stop pussyfooting and arguing without vague points.
Go find something concrete!!!

Very first question:

Why are you singling me out in all of your comments? And when you address me, why do you keep invoking nudity, proposing to paint my picture naked, and so on?

Don't you think it's ironic that you are arguing about the presumed sanctities of Hindu goddesses and how they shouldn't be "disrespected" by being painted nude and so on, yet you find nothing wrong with using the same images that you find so offensive to respond to a female blogger?

It seems to me that you have absolutely no other argument to back up what you are saying rather than attacking me for what I suspect is my sex and gender. I'm starting to think that your responses to me on based on the fact that I'm a female blogger, rather than anything substantial to the issue at hand.

Also, your fixation on nudity, stating that I am writing my views from a nudist camp, and proposing to paint my picture nude is kind of disturbing... how does all of this relate to the blog? Are you sure it doesn't have to do with something else? And do you honestly think you are making concrete arguments here?

Why not actually say something that relates to the actual paintings in question?

Or you can keep trolling.

Simba:

Can you say more, please? I'm interested in what you've started to discuss.

S Jain:

Can you provide a link to the piece you quoted? It might be helpful to people who are interested in referring to the quoted article. Also, it would be easier to separate what is the actual description of the paintings from your own opinions.

Desi

You are absolutely right. I should have used 'religious' rather than 'racial'.

that does NOT loay store on identity

Reality Bites:

The problem with people like these is that that they have not and will propably never fathom the profundity of the meaning of “Believing ,worshiping, trusting and following a God whom u cherish. The awe and the glory of a religious leader, which leads people to estatic levels of worship can never be understood by pseudo-westeners characterized by a kind of neo-modernism seeped in selfish paganism.

So now we're "pseudo-westeners"? How so?

And how are we seeped in "selfish paganism?"

Chandra Mohan and his guru have hurt the people’s deepest and most precious beliefs,essential to one’s belief system.

You say "people" as if all 1 billion Indians are collectively insulted. As far as I know, that is not the case. They've only offended the sensibilities of BJP supporters, Hindutva supporters, and orientalists such as yourself (seeing that you coin us as "pseudo westeners" and as such you are presumably an orientalist. Give yourself a pat on the back for taking on a "western" description of Hinduism).

These so called liberals are nothing but a sham because they preach only what they belief and expect the world to follow as if everyone is wrong.

If you could stop frothing at the lips, we're saying here, "People can disagree and believe what they like; but no one should be jailed because of some painting."

Where else can you find such an example like this anti-religious blog called PTR!!!!

We're not an anti-religious blog, we're an anti-fascist blog.

Of course he incited people, to riot!!!!

Show me where and when.

How during independence the Muslims cut cows and threw them in temples while the Hindus hit back with pigs on mosques along with rampant bloodshed.

And this is related to the paintings how...?

The fascist is this blog site that says, “Oh……..you hold this God sacred??? Just a second man……..I’m painting him obscene and…….don’t you dare oppose me or I’ll start giving everyone the benefit of my indispensible wisdom”.

You need to learn the definition of fascism. Fascism is when you start dictating what people should say, and then criminalize, jail them, or murder them if they say something you don't like. Giving people the "benefit of my indispensible wisdom" is not fascist, as long as I am not locking them up.

And yes, my God belongs to me and is mine. And I’ll never believe he can belong to people like you.

I'm sorry, but give me a freaking break. Who the hell are you to say whether something like religion and worship belong to you and not me or anybody else?

Nice try, "Reality Bites." You ranted and raved about being insulted, but said nothing concrete.

Your "reality" does really bite.

Um, no im not saying that "it never happened," can you read? What i asked you was whether you had any knowledge as to the precise contents of the painting beyond the nude depictions of the goddess, which if you had any knowledge of Hindu history (particularly art history), you would realize that goddesses only became widely clothed in the 19th century.

Im glad that in your view of Christianity, nudity has never been acceptable. But somehow i dont think that this is a sufficient argument for why Chandramohan's paintings are objectionable. Im not really sure what you were trying to say about my hypothetical encounter with a fanatical RSS man, but you are right that it would not likely end well. Seeing as though I am both Marathi (half) and Hindu, i have run into several RSS men in my life, most of whom after having their pseudo-histories trashed just start mumbling incoherently about my lack of devotion to Bharat Mata. Luckily they have been family friends and thus have not called upon their Bajrang Dal/VHP henchmen to perform their brown-shirt role. But youre right, in this particularly scary and disturbing state of affairs, i should be careful.

I didnt say that they didnt seal the paintings, I simply added that they sealed the entire archives. This I got not from the gospel of NDTV but rather from a professor working at the university. Again, reading the post you wish to respond to is a pretty good strategy if you want to make even a half-baked argument.

'Pseudo-Westerners'...thats a pretty good euphamism for the normal Sangh slander of pseudo-secularist. For a Christian, you speak Hindutva pretty well.

The so called Hindu will always exist as a goon, as a BJP goon. Rather as a BJP goon from Gujrat. GGs: Goons from Gujrat. I say this because we all know that not a single scripture that the so called 'Hindus' revere, carries the notion of 'Hinduism' as a possible system of belief or as a religion. The Hindu is illegitimate. Christians were born out Christianity, Muslims out of Islam, Buddhists out of Buddhism - out of what were the Hindus born? Out of the fear of Islam! Just some hundreds of years back. Even at the time of Nanak the word Hindu was employed in a disparaging sense. Nanak himself ridiculed the practices of Hindus and Jains. My ancestors were Brahmin and I carry that name in shame when it is tagged along with this broad category of goons called Hindus. I am proud to have belonged to the tradition of my ancestors that does not bother to convert or get converted, that does lay store on identity when the whole world is in deep strife on the question of conflicting identities.

Do we really believe that a painting can ruin a parampara of thousands of years. The goons are protecting their painted goddesses and human trafficking their real women. The Hindu is an illegitimate lot. The Hindu has no history. They are insecured and therefore aggressive because they are now not able live up to the last great development in human thought called Advait that ultimately trashes the notion of identity, they are afraid to live in the shoonya. Despite tireless efforts by Vivelanand and the rest the Hindu will never learn that we have different role to perform in this uinverse. Long live the Mahabharitiya (the Great Indian) that is proud to be an inheritor of an epic called Mahabharat. Not the servile TV serial produced by B R Chopra. The real Mahabaharata. No, the Hindus will be shit scared to see the real Mahabharata on their cable televisions at home. It is too free for words. What to speak of modern art. The painting in question will pale in comparison when it comes to the fearless encounters with sexual issues that are dealt with in the Mahabharata. They were not impotent GGs. Most of these GGs may not have read the 18 parvas of that great epic that in fact contains the Bhagvat Gita as a small component. And that is where thew tragedy lies. With the illiterate goon. Long live the MAHABHARATIYA. Let us pray for a new bold political vision that will be reflected by the Mahabharatiya. The Mahabharatiya is coming to take care of these BJP goons, looking for votes.

Anukamparth:

The Hindu is illegitimate. Christians were born out Christianity, Muslims out of Islam, Buddhists out of Buddhism - out of what were the Hindus born? Out of the fear of Islam!

Even at the time of Nanak the word Hindu was employed in a disparaging sense. Nanak himself ridiculed the practices of Hindus and Jains.

The Hindu is an illegitimate lot. The Hindu has no history. They are insecured and therefore aggressive because they are now not able live up to the last great development in human thought called Advait that ultimately trashes the notion of identity, they are afraid to live in the shoonya. Despite tireless efforts by Vivelanand and the rest the Hindu will never learn that we have different role to perform in this uinverse.

"The Hindu?"

I've said this tirelessly on other posts elsewhere on this blog, but I really believe that there is no "The Hindu," "The Muslim" and "the Muslim community" and "Hindu community" and so on. How on earth can you say "the Hindu" when there are close to 800 million--

let me repeat that--

eight hundred million--

Hindus in India, and hundred, thousands, and millions outside of India?

In your comments you're talking about how the "BJP goons" do not understand the real stuff. I think it's already dangerous that you have a version of the "real" dynamics. Furthermore, classifying the "Hindu" is not only short of racist, but it in facts engages in the very same practice that makes the VHP, BJP, and so on dangerous: defining the factors, criteria, and content of who is "Hindu," what is "Hinduism," and who and what an "Indian" is.

How about putting aside grand sweeping generalizations of millions of people, what is "real" Hinduism, and so on and thinking about this issue-- the idea that someone could be jailed because he/she played with the representation of religious figures and how religious nationalist parties uses this as an attempt at nation-building, defining what is offensive and not? And the politicization of art and religion?

S Jain:

Here is the link to article which describes the whole controversy from “non-anti-liberal-elitist” perspective

Wait a minute- from what I gather by skimming the article (so maybe I have missed it), the writer does not provide one concrete example of someone or a party denouncing the Prophet cartoons and then turning around and arguing that Panikkar's pieces should not be politicized by the BJP.

Furthermore, the writer of this article that you linked to doesn't clearly delinate the nature of the protests of those who criticized the cartoons. It's one thing to say that the cartoons were distasteful and another if you believe that the cartoonists should be jailed, hung, charged with violating some law, whatever. If someone rejects this "moral policiing"- that the artist should be locked up at the behest of those who are offended- and then also says that the same said pieces were in poor taste, that doesn't make it a contradiction. Like I thought those Prophet cartoons were messed up as hell, but I don't believe that the cartoonists should have been jailed or charged with anything.

You're free to criticize, but I don't see how you're free to lock someone up because they wrote or painted something you don't like. That is very arbitrary, subject to a gross interpretation, and frankly, kind of fascist.

***

Come on people-- come up with better arguments! I have yet to read one convincing comment that persuades me to believe that Panikkar should be charged, jailed, or the like for his pieces.

Simba:

Sorry, yaar, your comment had gotten sucked into spam space. I've reeled it back to PTR :)

A question:

Why do the saffron brigade then instigate racial violence?

Most of the time they are instigating religious violence rather than "racial" violence, no? Because they might treat all non Hindus of certain religions as a "racial" other, yet as far as I know, most Muslims, Christians, and etc in India are in fact ethnically (not "racially" since it's a social construct) the same as the people from a given region, whether they are of a different religion or not. Like, Gujarati Hindus and Gujarati Muslims are not "racially" different from one another.

Painter Srilamanthula Chandramohan has decided to work on mythology, a specialisation he chose during his post-graduation days at MS University, Baroda, in spite of the controversy generated by his works.

"My aim is to show the purity, truth and reality in human beings using the images of god and goddesses. I did not mean to hurt anybody's sentiments," he told The Hindu in an exclusive interview after returning to his home in Madanapalli village of Mulug mandal.

Mr. Chandramohan was at the centre of a storm earlier this month after fundamentalists resorted to violence, protesting against the use of images of Hindu gods and goddesses as also the Cross during his final year master's course in fine arts at Maharaja Sayaji Rao University as part of the dissertation. At their instance, he was sent to jail but was released on bail four days later (The Hindu).

Hey all, I think I read the descriptions of these paintings in the latest India Today, which is perhaps the only place where I could find what the hungama is all about. From what it describes, it doesnt sound like a art thats even vaguely thought provoking. At best it is provocative and at worst it can be calamitous. Most artists who are lending support opens their first sentence as " I havent seen his works, but..blah blah". If one hasnt seen the work, then how can one express such solidarity.. I fail to understand.

Another related issue is Artistic Freedom. Why do only they have this so called freedom... why not a beggar..you cant penalise a beggar for his views just because he doesnt know how to paint. That sounds totally unfair to that lesser mortal. Does this mean Art is inherently divisive?

Buddy it is not the academic, the artist, the marxist or even the BJP, VHP, bajrangdal or shiv sena I am bothered about. I am not a left winger but a citizen.

1. The University is no more free or safe with a Vice -Chancellor who invites goons in for political ends.. It is almost like a father calling goons in to rape his wife and daughter. Well that's what seems to be happening with the present vice chancellor who is a stooge or the goons or some kind of puppet.

2. Well there seems to be total fascism in the University - one has to follow the party line like the Nazi party or the Stalinists -- there is not a single professor or dean who is standing up to the VC and condeming the act. This is totalitarian and democracy is in danger -- forget the academics and artists think of the citizen.

3. If a student is not allowed to think and express herself we will be producing parrots and unthinkgin fools who will mouth the official line. Soon we will have spys ( some of whom might be already in Baroda University. ) who will start spying on their parents and friends.

4. The NCP of Maharashtra is no worse they are going against a court verdict Upholding the publishing the book of James Laine on Shivaji. How are we going to study history or are all our texts to be doctored?

5. I would like to aks the Honourable Vice chancellor of Baorda university whether any university is possible in his university or has it to toe the official line of his party? If for instance i speak about the Homosexuality of Savarkar as historians have done and the homoerotic nature of the RSS will such basic research be accepted? collins and lappaire have spoken about it in Freedom at midnight - will their book be burnt. Or will the RSS stop distributing Rakhis to each other ( men of course) on Rakshabandan?

6. What is being covered up. Vibrant Guijarat, India Shining, Liberalization of Man Mohan Singh and Rajiv Gandhi, we know that all of this is bull. it is meant to cheat. As long as the constituency votes for the corrupt politician who puts a soni or a jain in their seat so that they could be more exploited.

7. What is the centre doing? There is a UGC and a NAAC which seem to be as corrupt as the Universtiy. Nothing is done about fake Ph.D.'s No education exists in most colleges and universities and students are exploited in Degree Shops. It is like Meerut and AGra where degrees can be bought. Is the Vice - Chancellor going to make this like that or like the place he comes form S. P. University which is of the same kind.

8. Will our children be exploited because we have no where to go, and can not run away like the exploitative politician who has his/her children in every corner of the globe.

9. ARe we going to do somethign about this kind of oppression --- this is just the beginning. Tilak the Marashtran said Freedom is my Birth right and I shall have it we are certainly not free. There was more freedom under the British. The police respected the Principal of Baroda College ( Now M.S. University) and did not enter the campus inspite of having a warrant for Aurobindo Gosh. Now, Police and Goons are invited to harass the students and teachers while an examination is on.

10. To all the religious pople who are on this site and have made comments if there is something called religion then the exam is a serious ritual in the religion of education. I guess that should be respected.

This seems to be a mess for all the citizens of India. Too bad that people are leaving the Faculty. The Vice Chancellor should be given the boot. Perhaps the Education Minister too should be sacked. Unfortunately, the state of Gujarat is in a poor condition that is why they need to show that it is Vibrant Gujarat. Perhaps Mr. Modi will go in this election and that is why the Jani's and Soni's need to help create a ruckus.

It seems possible that the ruckus will die down as there has been a strong protest and there is one expected on 15th of June. Panniker too has been vocal in the IE and put things in the right perspective.

Can't the Governor or the Chief Justice Gujarat or CJ India look into the matter are the President and Prime minister incapable of handling a small town goon?

This is indeed a rotten state of democracy. What are the Universtiy TEachers doing tomorrow they could be treated like shivaji pannniker and their students could be treated like chandramohan by any goon and police inspector who is paid to do illegal things like vanzara.

Gujarat is unfortunately like Nazi Germany or Totalitarian USSR where there is no freedom. No body has the brains or the brawn to fight. All the people of gujarat think like junk boxes and support the VHP and the Bajrangi's.

What does a poor citizen like me do? That is what one has to sympathize with. NO action may take place. it is gujarat sorry i am cynical ms/mr citizen.

This is indeed a rotten state of democracy

Democracy is passe. What good a democracy that supports only minorities or makes the Sinhalese fight the Tamils ?

Gujarat is unfortunately like Nazi Germany or Totalitarian USSR where there is no freedom

Get your history or your biases corrected.

What does a poor citizen like me do

Get an unbiased education. Or migrate to USA.

Democracy is passe. What good a democracy that supports only minorities or makes the Sinhalese fight the Tamils?

"Democracy" may or may not exist in India, but it's certainly not an aesthetic trend that can be "passe." Do you have an alternative besides your non-witty witticisms, Someone?

“Democracy” may or may not exist in India, but it’s certainly not an aesthetic trend that can be “passe.” Do you have an alternative besides your non-witty witticisms, Someone?

No I dont. But I expect some new system will evolve. Too many world conflicts are a result of "democracy" .